Erica 0:41

A teacher, a psychologist and a podcaster I'll discuss distance learning and the stresses that come with it on today's episode. welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica and together with dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey to find a list of helpful free resources we offer head to lifefreeofanxiety.com Because you are not broken, you are not alone. And you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. Welcome the live free of anxiety podcast. I'm excited about today's episode because I get to have my sister in law on who is a fifth grade teacher. She is a fabulous fifth grade teacher. She is the kind of teacher that will go to your school, plays on the side and support you in whatever you do. And probably know you for a long time after you're not even in her class anymore. So I wanted to have her on to discuss distance learning, because it has been interesting to say the least to observe all that she's had to go through as a teacher. Sure. To, you know, rearrange everything she knows and teach from at home. Um, also dr. BARR is a psychologist, as you know, and he is also a grandparent to three children who are doing distance learning. So we have a lot to talk about today. We are going to have this be a two parter. We cannot answer all of your questions and concerns about stress because each experience, as you know, is unique and difficult enough in itself. Um, I just want to say great job. If you are doing distance learning right now. No matter how much of a failure you feel like you're going to hear in this episode that a lot of the things you're feeling are extremely normal. Um, I had a friend just today post on Facebook. Does anyone else feel like distance learning is ruining your relationship with your kids some days? So if you haven't feeling like that, I hope that this episode more than anything, um, just helps you realize you're not alone, so let's get to it. We've got some really good stuff right now on the show for you. well, it is the life free of anxiety podcast. And I'm joined not only by dr. BARR today, who is a licensed clinical therapist. I'm joined by my sister-in-law Danielle Rob, who is a, um, fifth grade teacher. She has been doing distance learning now. Well, this is her first full year. Of course, she got thrown into it last spring as well. But she's doing it for her first full year. She is one of the best teachers. I know everywhere we go in the community, somebody knows her, somebody lights up because their kid is in love with her as their face. Favorite teacher I'm about in love, but maybe in love too. Um, but she's just very well loved in the community. And she is a member of leadership team, PTA, teacher, life liaison for staff, and she won teacher of the year in 2013. So thanks for being here, Danielle.

Danielle Roth 3:49

Thanks. I'm glad to

Dr. Charles Barr 3:50

be here, Danielle.

Danielle Roth 3:54

Thank you.

Erica 3:55

but you're also the kind of teacher that like goes to your children. Your students plays I went to one of your staff. And we went to see him. So that's the kind of teacher you're hearing from today just to get out there. And obviously, you know, dr. Bar's an incredible therapist. I went to him myself. So, um, today we're gonna talk about questions. these are popular questions parents have when it comes to distance learning and three common questions that teachers have when it comes to distance learning, because we all know it's kind of a disaster. So, dr. BARR and Danielle are going to go back and forth and I will moderate the conversation.

Dr. Charles Barr 4:32

Sounds good to me, just to let you know, Danielle, my wife is a retired teacher. so most of her career, she was teaching second and third grade. And so she retired just in time. So she did not have to do this distance learning.

Danielle Roth 4:50

I

Erica 4:50

know you have three grandkids, right. That are doing it.

Dr. Charles Barr 4:54

Yes, I do. So that's where she is today. She's out there being the, the caregiver or the, the distance learning monitor or whatever you want to call

Erica 5:04

both. Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 5:07

That's

Erica 5:07

great. If your grandkids are lucky to have her teacher and

Danielle Roth 5:10

that's one of the big issues that we have too, is how to help our kids when their parents bring Graham in the babysitter. How do we do that?

Erica 5:18

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right, let's get to our first question, what can parents do if their kids are too nervous to turn on their camera or Mark or microphone to participate in class?

Danielle Roth 5:32

Yeah, so we have to do live teaching according to the Senate bill, um, where we're engaged in synchronous learning. So the kids. Or with their teachers. And, it's all across the country, not just California, where we have to, teach live with them. But we do have kids that don't want to turn on their cameras that refuse to like, if I'm like, Oh Erica, what did you get for number one? They like, won't unmute their mics. And then we get emails from parents that are like, Oh, my child didn't want to unmute. And she's too nervous to turn on our camera. So we say things like, well, they can use the chat feature or we'd really love to see her face. Like I try to make it like, Oh, I miss seeing her face in the morning. but the kids just shut down and they don't want to. And for me, it goes back to, um, I feel like then they're not participating and they're missing out on seeing all the other kids' spaces, you know? So it's just, I, I don't know how to, and really like dr. BARR said it with his wife being with his grandkids. There, there's no teacher at these people's homes. So it's like the parent fighting with the kid, turn your camera on, please turn your camera on your teacher's talking to you, you know? So it ends up being like the kids too nervous. which I'm wondering if those are the types of kids that wouldn't participate in a real classroom. They're the ones that kind of hide. So that's kind of, one of the questions that I've had to deal with, or my colleagues have had to deal with is how do we help those parents? Get their kids to be comfortable participating and, and, and showing their face on the screen and turning their mic on to talk. but yeah, it's been a, a big issue this year for sure.

Dr. Charles Barr 7:09

Well, yes, the, these children may be the children who would be the shy children in the class that you would very rarely hear from, would very rarely raise their hands. That kind of thing. Do you feel like those are the kinds of children that are, refusing the camera and the mic?

Danielle Roth 7:28

That's what I'm wondering. And, and like Erica said, how distance learning is kind of a disaster. Like, we don't really know these kids very well. We're trying to learn, you know, learn about them through

Dr. Charles Barr 7:38

they are.

Danielle Roth 7:39

And so like in a classroom, I'd be able to be like, within the first week I could be like, all right, I'm going to have to work her and to participating more, but through a camera screen, it's very hard to tell, but that's my. Inference based on teaching for as long as I have that there, Oh, that's probably a shy kid, but then I just feel like they're being isolated even more by not joining in. Like if the other kids are joining it, then they're not, then I feel like that's a whole nother issue of isolation at home with your parents. And you're not even joining the classroom discussions. Then what do we do with those kids? how does a parent help those kids?

Dr. Charles Barr 8:17

Well, and that's, that's a real problem for the parents as well, I think. And, and I think you're right, the child may be getting into trouble there too, because they're getting more and more isolated. but I think one of the things that a parent can do in that situation is they can sit with the child and say, okay, I'm going to be right here with you. So turn on your mic and, and, and let's. Say this, um, or I'm going to be right here, turn on your camera so you can see everybody else and they can see you because we need to make that social interaction, uh, through the screen as best we can. Now, one of the things we can also do, the, the parent really can do, I don't know, Danielle, that the teacher has time, or resources really to do much of what I'm going to suggest right now, but that is to sit with the kid and have the, have the child picture. Turning on the mic and turning on the camera and being there, you know, getting, getting that child to relax a little bit, to take some deep breaths, turn on the camera and picture them themselves. Being there in the class, on the camera and having a good experience. so I don't think the teacher really has much opportunity to do that. There, you guys are going to be too busy to accomplish that, but the parent might be able to do that if they're willing to engage and not just get in a fight and get angry at their child, it's like, okay, my child is stuck and is having trouble here. And maybe I can.

Erica 9:56

Are you suggesting that they do a practice zoom meeting when class is not in session, but maybe even could sit at the computer without students and teachers being there yet and pretend or not pretend, but practice having a good experience without everything being on yet. Is that, is that what you're saying?

Dr. Charles Barr 10:17

Well, actually, I was suggesting that they do that in their imagination. Um, so not, not even to that point yet where you can get the child to, to just imagine doing that and having fun, seeing their friends and, and having, and, you know, having it be. Uh, exciting to see everybody's expressions and that kind of thing. Even if they're not talking, at least they have their, their camera and their mic on, they may still have trouble answering a question. But I th Eric, I thank your, your suggestion of doing a practice zoom meeting, where were they? They actually practice and maybe the parent could even have a friend set up a zoom meeting and, Talk back and forth where the child can practice actually do it. Uh, yeah. And then be able to gradually get that into the whole classroom. So I think, I think that's a very positive suggestion and, I liked that practice zoom meeting the concept. Yeah. The other thing is, is, is parents that are having that kind of problem. No, I would suspect that that would probably be in the younger grades rather than in the older grades, but maybe not because the. All day on the screen is very stressful, you know, uh, in, in the past, you know, we've been trying to get our kids off of screen time, and now we're trying to get them on screen time. And, it, it has its own set of issues.

Danielle Roth 11:54

sure that's our problem too. We, my teammate and I, we tried to break it down. So we have like two 45 minute. live lessons of like the meat, ELA and math. And then we have smaller group session breakouts in the afternoon, but you're right. It's hard. Yeah. Their whole lives, they put the iPad down, put your Nintendo switch down and now we're like, get on the screen and. And you are right at the bar. The older kids don't want to turn their cameras on. Cause they're probably in bed or eating breakfast. And so they keep their hands. But yeah, it's usually like the second, third, fourth grade, that kind of middle zone that I'm hearing this the most from, or they're just too nervous or they don't know their teacher very well. So they just, I think they just like having it, you know, just being. Present, but not engaged. And I think that's worth it. One of Erica's teacher's questions we had talked about was that whole engagement piece from a teacher's perspective. But yeah,

Erica 12:53

well we all remember the first day of school and getting acclimated and everybody's nervous at first, right? I mean, you are nervous. There's all these new cakes and you're kind of excited and you're kind of nervous. And then by week, Probably two or three, you feel like, ah, it's become your routine. You've seen these people. You've kind of broken out of all the shyness, but it was certainly there at first, but I think that

Danielle Roth 13:13

face to face does eventually break.

Erica 13:15

You have it, where if you keep going on a screen every day, I could see why that you never kind of get past it. Cause you never really meet anyone. Right. I don't know.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:23

You never get on that's right.

Danielle Roth 13:26

Yeah.

Erica 13:27

Right. They're not playing on the playground thing each other in the cafeteria. Yeah.

Danielle Roth 13:31

Yeah. So. Yeah, that's, uh, I was, I was one of those questions.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:35

So one of, one of the, one of the things that the teacher might do, if, if, uh, if there's time and they, they feel so inclined would be to set up an individual meeting with that student, uh, to meet them individually over the camera. Um, so there's, it's sort of like you were saying, um, you know, the first day of school, you're a little nervous and you don't know who this teacher is. Right. That kind of thing. And, and it could be a much more of a, let me just kind of get to know you a little bit and spend 10 or 15 minutes with the students, just talking to them. One-on-one and where, where she can, she, or he can give, uh, all there. Attention to just that one child. I don't think that you could do that to the entire class. That probably would be unwieldy, but if you've got one or two students that are camera shy, that might be helpful as well.

Erica 14:33

Yeah.

Danielle Roth 14:33

And every I'm trying to think my district for sure out here, but I think that there most districts, most teachers, I follow them on Instagram. they ha we have office hours. So like if you think of college or your college, we have those. And so, um, that would be, be a great opportunity for a teacher to actually do that. Invite the child. Let's do a five to 10 minute zoom practice. You turn on your camera. I'll turn on my camera. we can get to know each other a little better. I did that with one student this year. I did a zoom meeting with him cause. He was so excited to tell me he was adopted and I'm adopted. And we talked for like 10 minutes and it was the most adorable thing. And now he loves coming to my class. So

Dr. Charles Barr 15:16

it's wonderful.

Erica 15:17

No,

Danielle Roth 15:18

that's and I'm, I'm almost a hundred percent sure any teacher out there, if a parent were to ask, um, we're all trying to make this work and whatever makes their child more comfortable with whoever the teacher is. What, you know, find time in their office hour,

Erica 15:35

use that office hours.

Danielle Roth 15:37

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 15:40

That would be an excellent use of the office hours, you know, and, and I know my grandchildren has, uh, you know, their teachers have a, an hour at the end of the day that any student who's having difficulty can, uh, Uh, tap in and, and they're available. but this would be the case where probably the teacher would need to initiate that with the shy student or the one that's not doing that. But I like that idea. That's, that's a great idea.

Erica 16:09

Is that a lot too? I want to get to our next question. I, I had a friend break it down for me recently that. She doesn't ever want to do homeschooling for her kids because being at home with them, it doesn't work the same way because students don't, you know, or your kids don't listen to the parents all the time. Like they would have to

Danielle Roth 16:29

teacher.

Erica 16:30

They just don't. That's how it works. You know, with, with being on top of your kids all day, they don't, you know, they rather listen to someone else quite honestly, but right now they don't have a choice. So how much should parents be helping their kids? Especially when they see them struggling. This was a question from Danielle, um, something she's heard about or seen, but sitting with them throughout the entire day, is that a good idea, dr. Bar or do we try to give them some independence and figure things out themselves?

Dr. Charles Barr 17:03

Well, it would be ideal if we could give them some independence. Um, I read an article on, uh, from, uh, the New York post that was published on September 16th by Bethany Mendell. And she she's talks about, kids. with the zoom lessons and the online learning that need to have full caregiver engagement, that's the term that they used and, and it really is sort of true. I know, In our case with our grandchildren. they're the, um, the nanny and my wife are both, they're divided between three kids, so they're rotating through, uh, but it takes. sometimes it takes full caregiver engagement in order to keep them focused on the screen to keep them understanding what the teacher is asking. Um, particularly, uh, we have a first grader and so he can't read a lot of the instructions and that kind of thing. So, yeah. Uh, instructions are needed or that kind of thing. Then then closer attention really does. I need to be given. And that's very difficult for parents who have to work as well. And, it's, it's a very huge dilemma, but if you've got that luxury of giving full caregiver engagement, that's, that probably would be very. Uh, helpful. Now, what that does not mean is that the parent is not doing the work. The parent is they're watching the work. Mmm. You know, I know, one of the, the teachers that my kids have ended up telling one person, okay. Please tell your. Mother that she has to quit doing your work for. Okay. You know, so it's like, alright, you still have to do the work but it's nice to have the caregiver they're watching to make sure that you're doing work. Not doing the work for you. And then it's, it's, uh, it's exciting for them kids to feel accomplished where they start out, not knowing where you know how to do this problem or how to write that sentence, and then they can do it and they get excited. It's like, Oh, I didn't know how to do that. And I do know how to do that. And so they're there to cheerlead and that kind of thing.

Erica 19:32

Yeah. Definitely.

Danielle Roth 19:34

I feel like this question is good too. Cause, um, like dr. Bar, you said the parents have like all of a sudden or caregivers have become a teacher, which they didn't go to school, some teachers. And I mean, I did, but it's a lot harder than people think. And I feel like if this whole distance learning came before common core started, maybe parents wouldn't be so stressed about it, but. Um, yeah, it's hard to have a we've there's a teacher in my district that she was like, I literally saw the mom next to the child while I was giving a math test. Like, yeah. And so, and so please let Johnny finishes tests and I'm Oh, I'm not helping. And the teacher's like, I can see you. The parents were like seeing what, what, I mean, the struggle that kids are having. Cause it is not easy. Especially first grade kinder. Like those kids can't read the directions. They drag the nouns to the correct place. They. They don't know, at least

Dr. Charles Barr 20:38

my kids can

Danielle Roth 20:39

do all the reading. So, um, but I think it's, that's part of this question too, is the parents are actually seeing their kids actively struggle with academics. And like I had a parent yesterday that was like, I don't want this year to be detrimental to her academic career. is she going to be ready for sixth grade? And it's hard as the teacher to be like, I don't know, like we are. Doing the best we can. I'm giving her everything. I can give mom you're my partner in this. So it's definitely, yeah, definitely like the parents. That's why this question is so important is where do they let go? And let me try to jump in versus them handholding, because they don't like seeing their smoothies, you know? Right, right. as a teacher where they're first goats to like mrs. Smith, please help me my computer, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Oh, I'm a teacher.

Erica 21:35

I'm not a tech person.

Danielle Roth 21:37

And if parents don't know how to use computers or they're borrowing them from the school now, you know, yes, there was all these obstacles we have.

Dr. Charles Barr 21:49

Well, you know, and it's so frustrating. I was there for the first day of class this year for my grandchildren. And so I was trying to help my, Grandson who's, going into fourth grade. And so we spent the first 15 minutes with grandpa trying to get him logged on and I couldn't even getting logged on. So fortunately for me, the, the nanny is a little more computer savvy than I am. And so she came and had him logged on, in about two minutes. Yeah, there was one extra step that I was missing and I just couldn't, I couldn't. And he didn't know. And I didn't know. And, so he missed the first 15 minutes of class, not for the lack of trying that's right. That's grandpa's fault. He didn't know how to do it

Erica 22:39

so much. So many problems. So many problems that come up. Um, Danielle, can you tell us about when children are feeling overwhelmed by the heavy workload? Because I know workload isn't ever another issue that people don't realize all this coming from online it either feels like more, or it is more but parents are having to help children that are stressed out. Can you?

Danielle Roth 23:02

Right. So I think what parents are realizing now, hopefully. is that the amount of work their child really does while they're at school with us all day? not to say that they thought we were having donut parties, distance learning. One thing that I've been able to do is weed out some of what you would say, busy work. so maybe I tailored and filtered it down to this is the stuff they have to know, language, arts, math, science, you know, like we're really tailoring it down. But to a parent sitting at home with their kid, it does look like we have 12 assignments today. And I'm like, yeah, that's I usually get through 20 in a day. 12 is nothing. So like from a certain time to a certain time they do this, but that's the other concern that parents are having is it's so much work. It's too much work. It's um, we're giving all this work, but we have to have 240 minutes of work for the children every day. And it's up to the teacher, how they spread it out, you know, but it has to be four hours of actual. Work, whether it's 20 minutes of math followed by 10 minutes of grammar followed by 45 minutes of language arts, and then only two minutes of history. And we're like, yeah, we have to give this much work all day. So the overwhelmingness, I think is. my colleagues that I talked to on the most, this is where our kids are getting roadblock road blocks, I guess is. This whole part of the amount of work. And it's really not that much work, but without a teacher guiding you through it, it does kind of feel

Dr. Charles Barr 24:33

like it. yeah. Danielle that's, that's one of the places where I think the parent engagement comes in, um, so the other thing that I think, uh, parents and teachers can can do is to give kids. I breaks, uh, because they don't need it when they're in the classroom because they're not staring at a screen, but when they're staring at a screen all day, they get eye fatigue and it causes eye strain and that kind of thing. So it's kind of like, all right, take your eyes off the screen. Look outside. make your eyes focused way far away and then up close and then way far away and yeah, close again, you know, so to actually do some, like I exercises to get your, your eyes moving again so that then they can come back into the computer screen distance. Yeah. And, I think that will help with the eyestrain and also, uh, get them up and moving, you know, it's like, all right, you have a five minute break, go outside. Uh, do something do jumping jacks do run around, up and down the block or something to get your blood moving. Um, One of the other things I think that kids can do and parents can help them with that is to remind the kids that they are learning new material. And yes, it is hard material, but. Encourage them. And it's like, but you're able to do hard things. You can do hard things. And so it's important for the kids to be encouraged and, and to be saying to themselves, I can do hard things. I can learn new things. So, so that we can really help watch the, the self-talk because the self-talk that the kids have makes a big difference. You know, you have a good day, your brain can learn new material. Um, you know, and if they can be saying to themselves, okay, I have a good one brain. I mean, my brain can learn new material and I can do hard things. And if I practice, I will get better.

Erica 26:42

Gosh, this must make Danielle your regular school year just seemed like cake, everything you thought that was so stressful now you're like, wow. I had no idea what was stress what's dreadful. It was until we did distance learning. Although you did know what stressful, that's the thing already.

Dr. Charles Barr 27:02

you know, the kids, the kids are. You know, they're, they're resilient. Um, so, so yes, we, we as adults think, Oh, the poor kids, but you know, they find workarounds.

Erica 27:15

I learned so much talking to a teacher and a psychologist. It was nice to kind of be the middle person. I personally do not have a distance learning situation right now. I'm really glad about that. I don't wish it on anybody, but unfortunately it is happening every where. And like I said earlier, each issue can be so unique, um, to what you know, your family and what your child's going through. But. I know that there are some things that are really universal, um, for instance, things being confusing or whatnot. Um, so hopefully you just felt like you could kind of commiserate for a second on the show. I know you are under incredible amounts of stress, either as a parent, as a teacher. Or as a student. So, um, stay with us for next week. We are going to have more of this great content with dr. BARR and Mrs. Roth. So be sure to check out our next episode, it's a continuation of this talk and I'll talk to you then. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something in today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through, and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped me in my anxiety journey to get a free copy of free from fears head to freefromfearsbook.com to find out more about the CHAANGE anxiety treatment program. Find us at CHAANGE.com Thanks again for listening. And remember you are not broken You are not alone and you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.