Erica 0:41

Regrets. We all have them and what to do about those really, really big ones today on the show. welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica and together with dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey to find a list of helpful free resources we offer head to lifefreeofanxiety.com Because you are not broken, you are not alone. And you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. Welcome back to the life free of anxiety podcast. I am Erica joined today by dr. Charles Barr, licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in anxiety. Now, as you can imagine, dr. BARR has been in practice for over 30 years. So he's heard a thing or two on his couch about regrets, but one of the reasons he wanted to cover this topic is because regrets can have a lot or a little to do with your anxiety. So we're going to talk about that today. Real quick, please listen back to the last episode of this podcast. It's a great one. It is the first audio session of the 16 week anxiety program. The change program we constantly talk about on this show because we did it ourselves. We got the rights to the program because it works and we know it works because it worked on us. Um, but we are providing you with the audio session in that podcast. It is one of the greatest things you will ever hear on anxiety. It's not long, it's not boring and you need to hear it. And it is the best description of anxiety, why you got it. And yeah, what it has to do with childhood, uh, what personality traits of, of a person gets this, uh, what the levels of stress have to be to, to get into this condition? Um, the first panic attack, it talks about a lot of really, really good stuff. It changed my life when I heard it, I still like to listen back to it because it's that good. So just listen to the previous episode of this podcast. And you will hear that that's Lou Owens B who breaks that down for us. And this is the first time this has ever been made public. So you get a sample of the change program, which is a 16 week anxiety treatment program. It's the one dr. Bar and I went through to overcome our anxiety. It's the one people are currently using to overcome their anxiety. We've got a group going right now. They are making excellent progress. If you'd like to learn more or just buy the program, go to change with two hundred.com. All right, let's get to the show. all right. It's Eric evac with dr. Bar for an episode on a nuts. So covered topic all the time. We're going to be talking today about regrets. We all have them.

Dr. Charles Barr 3:30

you know, we just don't live in this life very long before we'd done something that is wrong or has hurt somebody and we've screwed up in some way. And, boy, we can live with that for a long time. Sometimes.

Erica 3:42

Yeah, my, it's funny you say that we can not live in this life very long before that happens. Cause my. Little one-year-old. I was just changing him right now and he was lying flat on his back and he was brushing his hair and he dropped the brush on his nose and started bawling. And I was thinking, I bet you regret it the way you were holding that and then dropped it, dropping it on your face because he was really upset about it for a while afterwards. And so, you know, he really hasn't been on this planet very long. He's already got regrets, poor guy. Yeah,

Dr. Charles Barr 4:17

Well, actually, those kinds of regrets are very instructive to us. Aren't they? They

Erica 4:22

that's a good point.

Dr. Charles Barr 4:23

you know, it's like, okay, I need to not hold it that way. I need to hold it a different way. So I'll try something different next time. And, those regrets, they come and they go, pretty quickly, But, when it comes to interpersonal things, they don't necessarily go away all that quickly. you know, I've, I've had, regrets in my life, but, I try not to dwell on those.

Erica 4:49

Yeah, that's tricky.

Dr. Charles Barr 4:51

It is tricky. one of our good friends died. Oh two or three years ago, I guess it's been them. No, it's been probably more like five years ago now. And, my wife and I were there as she was dying and, we left because she was, We knew she was dying, but, but, we didn't know how long it would be before she would actually pass. And we left and I regret having left. she died like only an hour and a half after we left. And it's like, Oh, it was closer than I thought. And,

Erica 5:21

How could you know.

Dr. Charles Barr 5:23

well, yeah, you can't, that's the thing you can't know.

Erica 5:28

Yeah. I think for

Dr. Charles Barr 5:30

That doesn't keep you from feeling it

Erica 5:32

no, definitely not. That's and that's one of them on our list that we're gonna R get to. Cause that's a big, that's a big one. I know when I was a kid, I had such a fear of, I think it's, it really started when my parents were on the verge of divorce. I became very, very fearful of regret. I became fearful that. If they had a fight or somebody had a fight that, and they left the house and somebody got into a car accident, there is going to be a regret. And that has stayed with me of. How I handle things. in some ways probably it's probably positive because I, I tend to handle things a little bit more sensitively sometimes of how we leave off. I hope. Um, but sometimes I think it can really, I it's interesting that it can just, the fear of regret can be there. Cause regret is so strong and we don't want to feel it. Right. I mean, that must be why I was working so hard not to have regrets. Cause then I'd have to. Have the regret and that's no fun and that's a very shameful, sometimes dark place to be.

Dr. Charles Barr 6:41

Talk about that sometimes in a passive aggressive or not. So passive aggressive way sometimes even, you know, it's like, you know, you're gonna miss me when I'm gone kind of thing,

Erica 6:51

Yeah. You're going to regret this. I may or may not have told I may or may not have told that to some ex-boyfriends. I don't know.

Dr. Charles Barr 6:59

it's, it's a threat of regret, isn't it? You know, so we use it as a threat. You know, you're going to be kinda regret this.

Erica 7:06

Regret would be the worst thing, because I guess, because regret symbolizes loss. A lot of times it symbolizes the, ability or inability to get something back for, you know, sometimes forever

Dr. Charles Barr 7:20

Yes. And that's, that's part of the difficulty that's, that's even part of the difficulty of making commitments because, When you make a commitment to do one thing, it means you're also committing to not do some of these other things. And sometimes especially in relationships, you know, it's like, well, I'm afraid to commit to this person because then that means I have to say no to all the other people in the world in order to be, faithful and, uh, Keep the duality in my marriage and that kind of thing. And it's like, Oh, well, I'm not sure I'm ready to say no to all the other women out there.

Erica 8:01

If you're so lucky, I think, I think too with, with getting married in general, it's the question I know I had, and thank God I. I can answer this question now I don't have any regrets, but when I was, you know, engaged, it was very exciting. But since I'm a thoughtful person, I wasn't like a little Cinderella. Like when do we start planning the wedding? I was very much like, well, will I regret this in five years? Will I regret this in 10 years? You know, I had to think about if I get married, will I regret it? That's a big, uh, that's a big question. If you're about to get married or if you, You know, even, you know, having kids, will I regret having kids, will I be able to love them or, there's just, there's just a lot of, big, big consequences sometimes to our decisions. So

Dr. Charles Barr 8:47

That's right. So we all have regrets. They happen to us where we're all going to have them. Some of them are very private. Some of them are very public, unfortunately for those folks who have the very public ones. And, I have been fortunate that I think the things that I regret have all been very private. well now why are we talking about regrets when we're. As a show on anxiety. Well, because regret is one of those things that can fuel your anxiety. If you're caught in a regret guilt kind of circle that can just fuel your anxiety. And so we don't want that happening.

Erica 9:31

Yeah. It's interesting. What you just said, because it clicked in my mind to have regret can trigger embarrassment. And I think with us sensitive people who are more. Cautious and thinkers be, you know, we think before we talk and, we're just more, you know, we're just more sensitive people. I think also embarrassment with, with regret is huge. I know for me, I can feel very embarrassed pulling on things that I said or did that nobody remembers. I still think

Dr. Charles Barr 10:00

That's right. It's like, you're the only one remembering

Erica 10:03

Yeah. And not to mention the sensitive person, even on a day to day basis, sometimes I have regrets, you know, everybody has those like short term regrets too. Did I just eat too much? I regret that. Or did I just say the wrong thing? I regret that I shouldn't have said that. And so I think, We're going to get into here more about bigger regrets in life. But yeah, I just wanted to say sometimes I have to be cautious as this and a person of regretting things two minutes ago, because I can be really hard on myself. and, and sometimes it's caused, you know, sometimes it has to do with embarrassment sometimes has to do with shame or embarrassment, whatever. But, but yeah. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I think all people have regrets. I think sensitive people might be a little more sensitive to regrets.

Dr. Charles Barr 10:47

Well, and, and I think that's true. Um, now you mentioned the bigger regrets of life. what are some of the bigger regrets that you can think of?

Erica 10:56

Oh, we've got cheating or string outside of the marriage because once you do it, it can't be undone.

Dr. Charles Barr 11:03

Oh, isn't that the

Erica 11:04

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 11:05

know, as like, boy, I regret having ever met that person.

Erica 11:09

Or breaking the trust and never being able to get it back. with a spouse or, damn, you know, causing damage to the family. I'm sure you've heard so much of this in your office. In how many years? 30 years of therapy. You've heard it all. I'm sure.

Dr. Charles Barr 11:25

Well, I don't know if I've heard it all, but I've heard a lot.

Erica 11:30

yeah, we've got another one on here. Do you want to cover those or talk about those?

Dr. Charles Barr 11:36

Abortion is one of those biggies, you know, for, for some people they're very sensitive and, and, they make the best choice that they think they can at the time. And that choice ends up being, having an abortion. And then they, Carry that for the rest of their lives, sometimes feeling regret over that and feeling pain over that decision. And so that's a, that's a big one. Yeah. yeah, you mentioned the cheating and then, the, Well, I kinda mentioned that at the first, you know, if, if you haven't been with someone when they died or, you know, just watching what you say as you part, because what if they have a wreck and die and you had a fight with them right before, and your last words were, were angry words, those kinds of things. Uh, and unfortunately, sometimes that happens, you know, where. someone does get in a car, a car accident, or has a heart attack or whatever. And, your last words were angry words or you're estranged or that kind of thing. So those are the big issues, but then there's a whole host of little issues that, that, Are not so public, nobody else necessarily even knows about them. but we can be, we can be trapped in them. You may regret that you took a promotion or, regret that you made a move or, you know, my parents when, when they were my age now, When they retired and they, they went to a new home. I was not able to go and help them pack up the old home. And, I thought, well, You know, they're still strong and capable and that can, and now I realize being my age, it's like, I really regret that. I didn't go help them.

Erica 13:21

so sweet. So yeah, I think that's a sensitive person. That's a sensitive person who thinks that all these years

Dr. Charles Barr 13:27

yeah. It's like, they really, they really needed the help because I know if I had to move right now, I'd sure what my son's help. So,

Erica 13:35

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:35

that I couldn't do it myself. It's just that it would make it so much easier. And so, okay. So we all have regrets. so what are we going to do so that, that doesn't fuel our anxiety. how, how are we going to get past that and not be there selves up for having made the mistakes that we made and hurt the people that we've heard and, not had things go the way we wanted them to go.

Erica 14:02

yeah, it's definitely an individual type basis. I mean, you've got it. You know, you've got to see what feels right for you because every regret is so different, a lot, you know, from the, from every other regret and, and it's, it's tricky. It's it can be, this can really be ruling your life. I mean, this can be. This can be major minute by minute, Steph something that's really haunting you, or it could be something that kind of comes up every once in a while for you. I mean, this regrets are so different from each other.

Dr. Charles Barr 14:39

Well, they are now one of the things that I, one of the reasons why I wanted to, to bring this subject up in, in, the topic of anxiety is I don't want people living with panic disorder and living with anxiety. feeling like, well, this is my punishment, or this is what I deserve. and, and not seeking the help that they need or not being able to put away the bad feelings, and let that fuel the anxiety and just make life miserable for them. That's not, that's not called for, but. What, what do you do to get over a regret? Because sometimes they're very difficult to do well. One of the things that I think that that is very helpful is sit down and write out the regret, write it out on paper and, and be detailed with it. You know, who, what was the situation? Who were the players? what was going on at the time? And. Most of the time when you sit down and you do that kind of a, of an exercise, you find out that in fact, you made probably the best decision you could make at the time, even though after you get away from it a little bit, you see that it wasn't such a good decision. And then I want you to. Write out an apology. who, who did you hurt? Who got hurt in the answer in the situation? Write an apology for that. Okay. Now, this is similar to what they do. And the 12 step programs of making a man's and you may not be able to make a man's for the regrets that you feel, but you may be able to make some amends, at least make an apology for it. and you may know some people that have a very hard time just saying that, they're sorry. Or I apologize. I don't know. Do you have a hard time apologizing?

Erica 16:51

Do I personally, I, it can definitely be hard for me to apologize. It depends on the case. it depends on the person to how I think they're going to receive it. If I think somebody is going to blow me off, I don't really want to apologize because that's hard.

Dr. Charles Barr 17:06

that's right.

Erica 17:07

So, yeah, apologies can be very tricky, but, uh, I would say it depends. It depends on, and if I have a hard time with it, most of the time, probably, yes. I think most people do.

Dr. Charles Barr 17:19

that's right. Well, so, so in the 12 step programs, they say make a man's. If you can make a man's, uh, as if it, if it's gonna do more damage for you to go back to somebody that was hurt by something you did, then. It's probably not wise to try to make a personal and Manz with that person, but, you can still write out the amends for yourself. You know, here's what I would've liked to have said to that person, or here's what I would have liked to have done differently in that situation so that you're taking yourself through an instructive kind of thing. Here's. Here's what went wrong from my standpoint, here's the hurt that I, I, I think I caused, um, or the hurt that it caused me. You know, my decision may have hurt me more than anyone else. Um, and I regret that. So making a man to yourself, but, Writing that out. And if you can't make a, an amends in person or in reality like that, then, please don't, you know, don't, don't try to force that, but if you can do it and if you can't, you've at least written it out. And that, that, uh, really is very helpful. So apologize when you can that that's and then remind yourself that you made the best choice you could with the information you had at the time.

Erica 18:49

Generally. Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 18:52

yeah.

Erica 18:52

Cause I mean, there, there might be somebody who says I didn't make the best decision with the information I had. And I think at that point you have to remember that you're human and you might've been going through something else at the time. and you might have. Well, sometimes humans just do have bad moments, too. They do bad things, you know? I mean, cause, cause it's, you might really not feel like it was a good intention you had and guess what? We, we all don't have good intentions sometimes to be quite blunt, you know? I mean we all have that side to us and we all can really screw up. but at the same time, I think if you really were to diagnose this. the way dr. Barr's explaining in a letter and stuff, you might see, you might find that there's more grace for yourself than you thought. And there might be some, some things you did not see before of why you're not, you know, so horrible. I think generally that's the case. You will find that, okay, I see that this was at least happening at the time. And, and that's why this happened, even though it wasn't right. Necessarily or, or whatever. But yeah, I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a second in case anyone's listening, saying no, I really did something that is really bad.

Dr. Charles Barr 20:09

well, and sometimes, sometimes that's true, you know? and, and you hear people all the time saying, well, I should have known

Erica 20:16

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 20:17

Um, And it's like, well, that would have been nice, you know? And in our program, we, we say, you know, well, it would have been preferable if you had known better or if you had chosen better. Um,

Erica 20:30

But you did learn something if you're saying that, obviously you're you learned, right? So there's that

Dr. Charles Barr 20:36

well, we, we hope so now, now that's, that's actually, One of, one of the psychologists, the kind of the leaders in the psychology world, uh, had made a quote that said, may you make many mistakes and learn well from each well? you have to kind of think about that for awhile. I was like, I don't want to make a

Erica 20:57

right. Yeah. Who wants, who wants

Dr. Charles Barr 21:00

That's right.

Erica 21:01

yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 21:03

and yet, My grandkids listen to'em. the magic school bus. I don't know whether you've ever heard of that

Erica 21:10

Oh yeah. I know.

Dr. Charles Barr 21:11

but mrs. Frizzle is famous for always saying, so take chances, get messy, you know, it's like, and learn, you know? And so if we don't take chances, then. We don't learn as much as we might. And if we're full of regret, then that keeps us from taking other chances that we may be then may regret that we didn't take. So we, we kind of have it on both ends. Don't we? So we have the admonitions that say take the chance. I know you don't know everything. You're going to make mistakes. Learn from those mistakes. Rather than just feeling regret about them.

Erica 21:57

Yeah. And if you can, if you can, are about to make a decision with one of these, you know, major ones, or anything that's major for a regret, I would say. Really try to, to think about what that regret might look like to have. What would you lose? How would it impact you in, you know, five, 10 years and, and really, ah, look at that because it might be, I feel like, Oh, I'm living my life, how I want or whatever in the moment, but try to try to feel what that regret would look like before you make that choice, to avoid some serious regret. I would say. Because, you

Dr. Charles Barr 22:36

think I agree with

Erica 22:37

yeah. Once it's done, it's done and we want the best for you for you. Of course. Um, I know you said something about watch watching for triggers with negative people, I guess, of the past or situations that remind you of regrets. going back to, if you are dealing with regrets right now, I could totally see that because there are certain people that certain people or certain music, certain, whatever that really remind me of regret things I regret. Um,

Dr. Charles Barr 23:04

yes.

Erica 23:05

takes a lot of good, positive talking when I see those people talking to myself about, okay, relax, this is not, this is just a trigger. You're a fine person. Don't go crazy right now. I have to, I have to have those talks with myself with, with triggers. So I really like this one

Dr. Charles Barr 23:23

well, actually, it's very important for us to. remember that we have a lot of good qualities about us. None of us want to be remembered for our worst moment or our worst mistake. our worst impulse, you know, uh, w we just don't want to be remembered for that. And. We are so much more than that one thing. And it's important for us to remember that. And so sitting down and listing all of those positive qualities that you have about yourself and things that you do like about yourself, and it's okay to like something about you.

Erica 24:03

Yeah, I know. It's, it's hard to believe, but it's okay. Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 24:07

And,

Erica 24:07

Right.

Dr. Charles Barr 24:08

I have other good qualities about me that are redeeming. And, you know, we listed some of those earlier on in the program when we were talking about the characteristics of, uh, anxiety folks, they're smart, they're sensitive, they're, uh, dependable. They have high expectations of themselves, you know, all, all those lists of good qualities that, Anxiety folks tend to have so that it sets us up on one, one end, but it heals us on the other.

Erica 24:40

right. And I would say lastly, talk to somebody who can kind of laugh about your move, regret story. If you've got a story, like the move for regret, where dr. VARs says it to me, and it's this big thing in his mind of how we should have done it. But to me, I can hear that story and say, I know you had fine intentions at the time. I know the kind of person that you are. This is your parents were okay in the end and you have a little bit of a laugh about it. I think if you have anyone like that in your life, that can do that for you. Maybe share it with somebody. cause I do think when we internalize these things, they blow up in our minds so much more. And, and when I've said it out loud to a friend or my parents or something. And I've heard their response to it. I hate, I see the grace they have for me. And then I'm like, okay, you're right. This was a bit of an overreaction. Not that you overreacted. I'm not saying you overreacted, but I'm just saying, I know the good intention you had and have in your life. So, you know, I don't look at it like you do. I'm not harsh. Like you might've been on yourself.

Dr. Charles Barr 25:43

Yes. Yes. Well, that's, that's another, that's a really good point. Share it with somebody, even if they're, it may be too serious to laugh

Erica 25:53

right? Yeah. always

Dr. Charles Barr 25:54

at least you've shared it and somebody else knows that that is something that you carry and they help you carry it. when, when I was a young man, I had a big decision to make, and I went to one of my mentors who was a pastor. And, one of the things he said to me, because I was so afraid, I would regret my decision. And he said, Charles, you can only do make the best decision you can make at the time with the knowledge you have. So make the decision and then don't look back. and I always thought that that was, really Sage advice, uh, as I've come forward from that time, you know, it's like, don't spend time looking back. Life is always coming at you from, from the front. And, so it's much better to spend time thinking about what you're going to do, how you're going to change things, what you're going to do in the future and what good is, is still out there to be done. And that's a better way to go is to be looking forward.

Erica 27:04

Yeah. Yeah. And I know you had this verse of brothers. I do not consider that I've made it my own, but one thing I do forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead. And that's Philippians three 13, which I thought was a really good verse. I can honestly say that with as far as regrets. And forgiving myself. I, without my faith, I, it would be, I'd be in a much different place with how hard I was on myself. you know, last little note. So with that said, uh, the key themes of Christianity and how I. Relate to my faith. And what I believe is really pulled me through with some of my deepest, darkest regrets. And that's just, that's just the way it is. I know that could be controversial to some, but that's, that's honestly, I don't know how to have a better view of myself other than seeing it through the, through that lens. that's been my biggest saving grace.

Dr. Charles Barr 28:04

I think, I think it is grace

Erica 28:06

Yes. Play on words there.

Dr. Charles Barr 28:09

Right. Um, and the apostle Paul was the one who wrote that. And, boy, if anybody had reason to have regrets, he certainly did. I mean, he was persecuting the Christians of the time before he met Christ. And, so there's where the grace comes in.

Erica 28:26

Right? Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 28:28

So we want, we want, if you're living with regret, if you, Have a painful event in your life. we want you to, to work on that and we want you to know that you can. Quit looking behind and look to the future, but deal, deal with what that regret is, deal with it, honestly, because if you don't deal honestly with it, then it, it's not going to help. But if you deal with it, honestly, then you can start looking forward. And, uh, if you're a person of faith, then ask for forgiveness and, take the grace that is offered and go forward.

Erica 29:08

Right. I know we could have gone on about this topic for a long time. There's movies of the central theme is regret there's books about regret. I mean, there's just so

Dr. Charles Barr 29:19

Oh, absolutely.

Erica 29:20

we could have gone with this, but we hope we covered it as succinctly as we could in 30 minutes. So. thanks for being here. I know it's not the easiest topic to talk about. Some people might not even be, they might've seen the topic of regrets. they might see this come up on their podcast app and, and skip right over it. Cause it's, it's tricky. It's hard stuff to look at. It's hard for me. It's hard for everyone. so yeah, with that said, uh, thanks for being here again. Thanks for sticking with us. And, we will, we'll be back with you next week.

Dr. Charles Barr 29:52

Yes. Have a good week. Bye bye.

Erica 29:55

Well, I said it at the end there. Thanks so much for sticking with us. We know regrets is not a very fun topic. It's not a fun topic to even think about. It was a little bit hard even today. I have this discussion as the podcast host, so I know it's cringe where they probably, when you're listening to, but hopefully you also got some good insight. Um, so again, you can look up the change program. If you want to, to learn more about that. I talked about it at the beginning of the show. There's an episode app right now. I really, really want you to hear if you never listened again, I just wanted you to hear this episode. It is the one that we put out before about why you got anxiety and it is the, it includes the first audio session of change. Uh, we provided that for the first time it's been made public and it's never been made public before in this program. Don't forget was first started in the seventies. Um, but it is some of the best information on anxiety you will ever hear. It will at least tell you why you got it. And if you feel that this is explaining why you got it, um, trust me that they have the other part of the answer to on how to solve it. Alright, talk to you next week. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something in today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through, and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped me in my anxiety journey to get a free copy of free from fears head to freefromfearsbook.com to find out more about the CHAANGE anxiety treatment program. Find us at CHAANGE.com Thanks again for listening. And remember you are not broken You are not alone and you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.