Erica 0:41

Well, Hey, welcome back. I am super excited to have on somebody. I consider a friend today, Heather flubby, who is my gym owner. That's how I, I know Heather. Um, but she is also somebody who just competed in the world's toughest race. I say just competed. Because it came out this past Friday, but she actually did the race a year ago. And I remember when she was getting ready to go. And I remember when she came back and that is a show for those of you who aren't familiar, it's kind of like a survivor type reality show. It's on Amazon right now. You can stream all 10 episodes. Um, so yeah, she placed 37th. You don't get to see her and her team much on the show. You do catch a glimpse of them. I think in the. Ninth episode for a second, but yeah, team's super fast is, is the team she was on and they placed 37th. I mean, to go through all of that physically and mentally, it says a lot. And so I'm really excited to share this episode with you so much inspiration. so many good life lessons. Um, Heather talks a lot about racing is a lot like life and. Just so many good things, so many good lessons for anybody to hear. So let's get to it right now. And remember, you can watch the show. World's toughest, race streaming on Amazon, and all 10 episodes are up and teams super fighters is Heather's team. Let's get to her story. welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica and together with dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey to find a list of helpful free resources we offer head to live free of anxiety.com. Because you are not broken, you are not alone. And you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. all right. Well, I am joined by my friend, Heather flubby, who I just introed is on the show right now. World's toughest race. I told her that I think she's a crazy person. I remember when you were about to be on the show leading up last summer, I thought you were a crazy person that, and I still do, but in the best way possible. So thanks for being here, Heather. I'm so excited to have a real life celebrity on our show.

Heather Flebbe 3:02

Aw. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And yes, I do understand it takes a crazy person to do the world's toughest race.

Erica 3:08

Oh, my gosh, I don't, I don't even know if an hour, like, I can't even imagine myself there for an hour. Is that bad? But the thing is, is people like me need to hang out with people like you, because if I can just take a piece of you into my day, even if it's a small piece, I'm like, okay, I did, I accomplished something today. I was brave.

Heather Flebbe 3:26

uh, I love it when people say they hear me in their, in their mind, like me talking to them through their, whatever they're doing a workout or whatever it might be.

Erica 3:33

Yes. Well, when I was after I had a baby and you were, you took over the gym I remember one time in specific, I was doing like something really hard. I was something like lots and lots of burpees. And you were like, Eric is going to stay there and she's going to keep doing it for two minutes straight. And I was like, I am. And then I ended up doing it and I was like, wow, I guess I was going to do it. And that's why I love, I would love working out with you and being I, by the way, turned on your, video, your workout video. Cause Heather is the owner of Kaia fit and she is currently online right now with the given circumstances of the pandemic. But I turned on your workout yesterday. And the first thing you you said was who knows maybe this is going to be the greatest week of our lives. I was like, Oh my gosh. That's so Heather

Heather Flebbe 4:18

everything you're saying is why I love adventure racing or any type of racing, because I really have pushed my body to the ultimate limits and all these other things. I see people attempting. I know you can do it. Like the confidence you get from doing something crazy like that. Just, you know, it makes you have limitless potential and believe it in other people too.

Erica 4:40

yeah. And in the end, when I won a bike at your gym and I was, yeah, I mean, it was this whole process of visualizing myself on the bike. Yeah. Before I won it. And when I did, it was the best feeling ever, because I worked, you know, I had, I had achieved something and I felt. Like it was funny because when, when that happened, it was the six week challenge of brick that we do at the gym. And you weren't even there because you were in Fiji at the time of

Heather Flebbe 5:04

Yeah, right.

Erica 5:05

I totally did channel you. And I swear, that's why I won the bike. Cause you had just, I had just been working out with you and then you left. But, anyways, I want to talk about, about the world's toughest race. Um, this is, this is how many teams, 60 something teams and you were one of them. 60

Heather Flebbe 5:24

16, 60 16 from 30 different countries. so we, there's a really diverse crowd there of elite adventure racers to some, to some teams that have never experienced this before. So it was really fun to get to know all the teams

Erica 5:41

yeah, I bet. And who was, tell me about who was on your team, your team's name, his team, super fighters.

Heather Flebbe 5:48

Super fighters. And that came from, my kids always called my husband's Superman because he seriously is just this anomaly that can do anything really well. He can, so he can build a table. He can climb over a wall, the fastest of anybody. I mean, it's just crazy. So they really like believe, believe their dad is Superman. And then we had two fire firefighters on our team. so we kinda just blended this. Superman and firefighters, the super fighters. And plus they, we had two teammates that were also cancer survivors, so they know how to fight for sure.

Erica 6:21

And one of them is

Heather Flebbe 6:21

so my. Yes. One is my husband carry flabby. So he, is three years cancer free now. Um, but, uh, three years ago was diagnosed with a very large melanoma tumor in his lung and had a part of his lung removed, um, all while going through the firefighter Academy. After like at age 48, deciding he is changing his whole career.

Erica 6:43

What was, what

Heather Flebbe 6:44

about anxiety.

Erica 6:45

yeah. What was his career before? Because he had to turn into a firefighter at 48. What was he doing in the past

Heather Flebbe 6:53

Oh, he had the best life. He was, he was a lifeguard for 20 years. He had no stress. He would never took work home from him, with him. He never had to work like extra days. She was always home. So we went from that. My kids always having him around too. Now he works all the time and especially like being gone in the Academy for months at a time. So yeah, he was a big, big shift.

Erica 7:19

And he said he's making the switch and the fire Academy with this new diagnosis of cancer.

Heather Flebbe 7:26

he had, he got the diagnosis two weeks before graduation. So we were really worried that he went through all of that and then you're not going to be able to graduate and finish. And luckily he did, he did in the graduating. Um, so that was an amazing achievement. Um, but yeah, I mean, I always talk about him and say that. His, all of his racing endeavors. This was even before the world's toughest race. What you've learned through racing, what you, you know, that low you get to and how you pull yourself out of things really got him through the fire Academy and the side gnosis and all of his treatments and everything he had to go through.

Erica 8:06

I imagine. So. And so, and so you had him on the team, you had somebody else who had survived cancer on the team?

Heather Flebbe 8:15

yes, that was his best friend of 25 years. And we all it's really crazy. The two of them got cancer because they were the most active outdoorsy, like super fit if they show their best friends. So they always did everything together. So they would show up on bike rides and just annihilate everybody and everybody like, Aw, Carrie and Shaun are here. And then you have, Sean, and just a couple years later, Carrie getting his diagnosis too. And Shawn, had tongue cancer and really went through some very hard trials. Like he had a feeding tube and his tongue was paralyzed. He had some really gnarly radiation, that he had to get like. Pinned down under a table for, he lost a lot of weight. His recovery was very long, but, he'll tell you too, that his, the bikes saved his life and with his therapy, after going through all of that, it really was his time to focus mentally.

Erica 9:09

just on getting great at biking and building up that strength again.

Heather Flebbe 9:14

Yeah, I think having that one singular focus to take his mind off of what he lived through with his cancer, um, effects, uh, yeah, it really helped him to just have that one singular focus to take his mind off of all the fear and worry.

Erica 9:28

Yeah, and I imagined too, going back to, what you were talking about with your husband having it. I mean, you had to overcome a lot of things. Do you have two kids when your husband had cancer, you were waiting for him to finish the fire Academy and all of a sudden you had this huge curve ball thrown at you. how did you overcome that?

Heather Flebbe 9:49

Well, you know, it, it was an extremely hard time of our lives because we also had a teenager at the same time. So, um, you know, how teenagers can be? Well, he was, he was going through his own struggles with actually anxiety and depression. And so I was alone. while my husband's at the Academy. Trying to figure out the best ways to manage my son's, problems, issues. And so, yeah, it was a very, very trying time. I had a lot of moments of on the floor, bawling my eyes out. Um, I, so, but, you know, I, I ha I got it tattoo actually for my son and my husband, and it says hope. And that's what I just clung to hope. And knowing that this will end there is light on the other side, um, that we will not be. Going through cancer treatments or going through the teenage years forever. And I just clung to hope and hoping that it would end sooner than later,

Erica 10:45

yeah. Right.

Heather Flebbe 10:47

that that's really like there wasn't a secret. I'm sure I did a lot of things wrong and, you know, trying and trial and error of getting through things. But just knowing that this isn't forever, it will end and I can get through this. And I, I knew I was strong, but you know, you feel weak a lot of times. And so, you know, to this day, it's three years later and Terry still has fear about it all. And I still have to talk him through like, you are still strong. And that was the, really the impetus to do the world's toughest race is because I wanted Sean and Carrie both. They both have lots of physical pieces of their body and their mind has changed. They have a lot of, a lot more fear and uncertainty about, will it come back? Um, And I wanted them to do this race too, to really cross that finish line and say, we are still Shaun and Carrie. Like, we are still these amazingly strong, powerful men. We still can do anything. And, um, that's what I really want. I wanted for them to get out of the race was, wow. Look what I have overcome and look what I can still accomplish the craziest thing.

Erica 11:57

definitely the craziest thing in the world. Um, and, and yeah, I mean, so, so we've got two cancer survivors. We've got you, their biggest cheerleader. And who else do we have on, on the team? There's two more guys or is it

Heather Flebbe 12:11

Yes on guys. Well, four, there are four racers and one support person. So the other racer was Michael Nicolaitans and he is also a firefighter. And, um, actually went into the fire department a little later in his years as well. Um, and then he got into this big car accident when he was younger. So he has no patella

Erica 12:30

Oh my goodness. All these

Heather Flebbe 12:32

So he had his own. Yeah. He had his own struggle to get through in the race too. And now, and then our support crew is Danny Trudeau. So he was there for us. We had four camps we could arrive to if we made it there and he would be there with food for us, our tents, if we wanted to sleep, like be there for whatever we needed. So he was an amazing support to us too.

Erica 12:54

That's really. Wow. That's great. you sound, he sounds

Heather Flebbe 12:58

To ask somebody to leave their there, to leave their life, to just come attend to all of our needs, how to be a special person.

Erica 13:06

that's sweet. Um, so you say that part of why you also, another reason you entered this race was to increase awareness for the importance of men's health screenings, because is that because men don't often go to the doctor or aren't as vigilant

Heather Flebbe 13:21

I mean. I don't have stats on that, but that is what I seem to see around me that men, you know, like I had to tell Carrie weekend after weekend and month after month, like you have this cough, please go to the doctor. And I just thought, He would have like antibiotics or something, but he wouldn't take care of it. And even one, one weekend he actually went to urgent care and ended up all the line was too long. So he came back home. Yeah. And, uh, yes, I hope that, you know, you can see that it's possible that they could have the deck detected, um, you know, their cancer sooner and maybe. Carrie wouldn't have had to have lost his lung. So just taking your physical health seriously, all everybody needs to do that. And don't, don't wait too long to look into something that doesn't feel right.

Erica 14:17

Right. I want to talk to you about your anxiety with climbing. I don't remember you. Saying you had a climbing anxiety. I remember before you left, there was videos on Instagram of you like climbing wall and training and stuff. I remember you guys also saying, Hey, we're all trying to figure out how to use a compass. There was like all these little things you were learning to do before doing the world's toughest race. so you're, you're facing all of a sudden, like way taller, actual mountains and what was how, I mean, just tell me about that.

Heather Flebbe 14:53

So Mike Nicolatus, we call him Nico. So Nico and I are on the team. Both had a pretty big fear of Heights. so we, we did actually practice outdoors and indoors and we practiced it a lot because Nico and I were so fearful and it was funny. Like we started a little smaller and then we graduated up and we went to, um, This one mountain that I can't even believe still to this day that I went down in and climbed back up in. but both Nico and I would be like shaking so bad. We both could only stare at like a little square right in front of our face. We would not look away. You got Carrie and Shaun might be turning to talk to us and we wouldn't look. And yes. Um, I even going to the race. Both Nico and I were not sure how we would respond, when we actually had to climb in the race. So yes, it was much higher than anything we had practiced. Uh, so, you know, of course they have to throw us the biggest, hardest climb they can for the world's toughest race. but then I, you know, just, I guess all the preparation we did and really throwing ourselves into, cause it would have been really easy to say. Um, scared. I'll wait until the race where I don't want to, I don't want to have to practice this. Um, But all the practice, the preparation, and really just facing your fears. Both of us, by the time we got up to the top of this really long, it took a long time for us to climb up this. So we were hanging there for a long time. Um, so we get to the top and I got up there first and I was waiting for him cause I was so excited and we both were so happy that, Oh my gosh, we, we actually looked around instead of staring at the mountain in front of us, we got to look around and see the view. We both felt amazing. And to have overcome such a. Big fear. It was really a big fear for both of us. I can still remember that feeling at the top of that mountain.

Erica 16:45

Wow. Yeah, I don't, I think a lot of people wouldn't have even gone on the world's toughest race because maybe you're great at canoeing and, and all the other things so that it's like, but you don't have to mountain climb. Maybe, you know, you could have just said, okay. Well, I, I'm not going to compete then. I don't want to, but you, you dealt with it. You practiced, I think preparation for anything when it comes to fear is major. just getting your mind prepared that it's going to be, you know, where it's. In a, in a scary situation and how you're going to deal with it calmly. And I love that you took it a little by little until you were ready, and then you could enjoy the view from the top. it's funny to think that you were doing that all on camera, because everything that was filmed of you can, can make it to Amazon prime and go into everybody's living room. So. That that would freak me out. Just like being scared and being filmed. I, I, I, that pressure would get to me, I think.

Heather Flebbe 17:43

Well, I will tell you, I did come home from that race with a lot of emotional things I've had to deal with and I've had nightmares and I think. Part of it. Is that like, what did we say? How, how will I be perceived? you know, to be expected. Do you have some issues with your team? If it's 12 days of racing with no sleep, not enough food.

Erica 18:05

did you have to find your own food?

Heather Flebbe 18:07

Yeah. So we, we would, um, the start of the race, we would kind of predict how long it would take us to get to these checkpoints in this next camp, because at the camp, our support crew had all of our supplies, so we could restock

Erica 18:21

Oh, I

Heather Flebbe 18:22

So you had to. Pack your backpack with what you thought you needed for water, what you thought you needed for food. And you would hope that there were water sources along the way to refill. So you really had to predict how much food would I need, how much, uh, water would I need. and so sometimes you got it right? And sometimes you got it wrong. And there was definitely a section where I was down to my last few Skittles and my team doesn't know, but I was, I didn't share with them.

Erica 18:48

Not even my husband got me.

Heather Flebbe 18:51

No, my husband loves Skittles. You know, and I was like, I can't share these, cause this is my last little bit of sugar and a, got to have all the sugar to get through this because I'm the girl on the team too. So, you know, I definitely had a lot more pressure on me to keep up with three very fit guys to, you know, feel tough and strong and all that stuff, even though I think I'm puffing and strong, but you there's more pressure on me for sure. So I didn't want to give up my Skittles because I was running out of

Erica 19:20

I don't blame you. Totally, totally

Heather Flebbe 19:22

you guys now, you know, I didn't share.

Erica 19:24

truth about Heather's Skittles. funny.

Heather Flebbe 19:30

That's funny.

Erica 19:31

I saw in the trailer, I think you posted it recently about. Your, extreme water temperatures too. And I remember you were saying you had to get into like some space suit cause you like to get warm afterwards, but I, yeah, I finally saw the video of those treacherous freezing cold water, and I was just like, Oh my gosh, Heather, how how'd you do that?

Heather Flebbe 19:52

clip, well, that clip that they showed of that guy was pretty much exactly how I felt I got into the tent and they stripped all my clothes off too. He looked a little more severe than I was, but I still. I was on my way to hypothermia, so maybe not full blown, but, um, that moment of being in that water, I, again, I guess, you know, man, I have a lot of trust issues. I, I wasn't really trusting that we were going the right way. Carrie is responsible for the maps and leading us and it felt like we were lost. It's dark, it's freezing. Uh, we were. Looking for a trail, but we kept getting in the water and like the water was going on forever ever. So that was one moment in the race where I thought we were going to probably have to call. We had a radio, we could call it to be rescued. And I wasn't sure that we weren't going to end up calling and to be rescued that night. Cause we were in that water for so long and it was too cold. So yeah, afterwards.

Erica 20:49

Did you say.

Heather Flebbe 20:50

Well, we were, we couldn't, we couldn't touch. So you were swimming unless, unless we were to grab onto the sides to try to hold onto like the vines and stuff. But yeah, it didn't work for her. We weren't moving very fast that made us move slower too. So. Um, but yeah, so I was so called that, that space you thing, they like emergency blanket, but it's like a suit with a hood and arms and everything. Um, I wore that for 24 hours after that. Cause I could not get warm. I'm stand up paddling with this big old Marine species thing on I have done adventure races before on a much smaller scale and those races for you to your knees. So, I mean, we really were literally dragged through the mud in a Surrey.

Erica 21:33

I imagine that was scary for your kids. Were they worried or

Heather Flebbe 21:39

I, I'm not sure if they were afraid because I'm not sure my daughter's 12 and my son is 19. I don't know that my daughter really fully could have understood what we were actually doing, even though, you know, we had, we had trained for so long. Um, so she was probably just more like sad to not have her parents there, but they were fully supportive and actually my. My daughter just told me, she's like, well, it looks like you have to do it again.

Erica 22:04

Oh my goodness. Wait, are you doing it again?

Heather Flebbe 22:09

I would absolutely love to do it again.

Erica 22:13

You crazy person again? You're right. Oh my gosh. I.

Heather Flebbe 22:18

I went into that 100% believing we were going to win that race. And I truly believe believed it. Like I said it in the interview, I said, we will win the eco challenge. And he, he made me resay. We will finish the ego challenge. I'm like, okay, I'll say that, but we're going to win it.

Erica 22:35

that's. I love that

Heather Flebbe 22:37

And unfortunately not now, you know, we didn't, so that's what I have to go back.

Erica 22:43

And, Where were you ever like really close to other teams for like a couple days or

Heather Flebbe 22:49

Um, actually there was one. Hiking section through the middle of the night that we must have had about eight teams all traveling through this section together. And at that time, um, I had kind of like just had a lot of emotions with my team. So I actually went and went to go hike with another team for a couple hours.

Erica 23:07

Wow. All right. I mean, if I see you later,

Heather Flebbe 23:11

I just so desperately needed to talk, talk to other people. so, um, Mo most of the time, I would say we were by ourselves, but we, there were always teams around us and we kind of ended up with the same teams around us. So we kind of got started getting to know each other through the race. Oh yeah.

Erica 23:27

what part of the world's toughest race will you never forget? Like that stands out the most like a memory or anything.

Heather Flebbe 23:35

Oh, um, Any time we interacted with the villages, the people of Fiji, uh, man, they really transformed the, my, my spirit, my soul. I just saw such increase ratable selflessness giving. Like I, I have never met people like that. People of Fiji. Um, they literally would. Give the shirt off their back to you. And that when they mean it, they mean it literally like this one where we had slept in the house before, um, they, the husband and the wife, they had children and they just left the children that day. They were supposed to go to school and stuff. Three 30 in the morning, got up with us. And hiked five hours through the jungle, bare footed, um, through the jungle for five, for five hours, they let us through the jungle and they just, they just said, yes, I will go. Like, they didn't hesitate. They didn't think about, Oh, I have all this stuff to do. They just said, Oh, you need, you need help. Yes, we will help you.

Erica 24:37

that's amazing.

Heather Flebbe 24:40

If it's so consistent too, from person to person and village to village, they all wear the exact same way. Their culture just breeds happiness and giving. Yeah.

Erica 24:49

what an appropriate place to do the race then, and so beautiful too. My goodness.

Heather Flebbe 24:55

Oh yeah. Yes.

Erica 24:57

And then your

Heather Flebbe 24:57

That's what I can't read. Okay.

Erica 25:00

I was going to say your kids joined you at the end, right? That was when you're all done, your kids joined you in Fiji and you stayed two weeks.

Heather Flebbe 25:08

uh, yeah, we stayed another, I think it was 10 days after. Um, and it was really important for me to bring them back to a village. I really wanted them to get there, to meet the people at Fiji. So we did one day we took our little sedan cars. Through these dirt roads and we weren't even sure this car was gonna make it. We were afraid it was going to get totally ruined or stuck. Um, so it took awhile to get back to the village. And we went to the village where we spent the night and the pastor and his wife, um, brought us to the jungle. We went back to give them, um, Like food and, um, some of our supplies, maybe we weren't using any more headlamps and medicines and things like that. And it was a really touching experience for them to just see a different culture, a different way. People live to be more grateful for what we have over here. And actually, I hope we could bring back a little bit of their generosity and happiness back here.

Erica 26:03

what do you hope viewers see in your story?

Heather Flebbe 26:08

I think the main word I would like people to attach to with our team is overcoming. So for me personally, to overcome being the only female on the team and dealing with, you know, my own, my own emotions throughout the race and things, I had to try to triumph over. Um, in addition to. Yeah, Carrie and Shawn just overcoming maybe their doubts about themselves, their own anxieties of like Carrie could, will I be able to breed with half of alone? Um, Sean, will I be able to eat enough food and drink enough water with my issues with my tongue? Um, just to see how we did not let. Anything, stop us. Every, we did face a lot of different obstacles. I had a fever the second day of the race and they were trying to tell me to stop. And I was like, I am not, I did not do all this work and come here to quit. I will not quit. Um, so yeah, just overcome you. It doesn't matter what you're facing. You, you do have the strength and the power to overcome it.

Erica 27:11

do you really believe that anyone can get through anything?

Heather Flebbe 27:16

I really, truly do. I think. It's just in our own mind that we believe something is too hard or I'm not good enough. I'm not capable enough. I think you have to jump in and do it. So for me, for climbing those mountains, I had to jump in. I was so afraid and shaking an iPad. I had a panic attack. One time we were practicing, Carrie was way up the top of the mountain and I started screaming but he couldn't, he cannot come down that fast and I had to work myself through it.

Erica 27:49

well, You did it. And I was so glad when you came back to be my, a gym instructor again, too, I was like, okay, Fiji, you had Heather Long enough, but I got to work out now

Heather Flebbe 28:01

thank you. I was happy to come back to, I was happy to come back to a bunch of girls because

Erica 28:06

and a bunch of Mexican food. Was it, wasn't that the first thing you did

Heather Flebbe 28:10

Yes,=we went straight to a big, huge, I thought of burrito.

Erica 28:15

So the cool thing is if you ever want to work out with Heather, no matter where you are now, you can, um, I do it every single day, pretty much. I turn on Kaia Fitz workouts. Um, and you can get Heather's positivity. If you want to work out from your living room, Heather, how do you, how do you get your, um, how do you, how do you go about doing that? And I should say if someone's

Heather Flebbe 28:37

So, yes, that is one benefit of being forced into this new technology for gyms and live streaming is you can join me anywhere in the world. So I love being able to see people from all over reaching more people. Um, so you can visit our website. It's Santa Clarita dot Kaia fit.com and that's K a I a. Kaia fit.com and you can actually try us for a week for free, so live streaming or in our outdoor classes, or hopefully one day in the gym too. But yeah, from anywhere in the world, we have a ton of variety too. So you have kickboxing and bar and dance and cross train and TRX and cycling. Um, so whatever you love, I think we have, and we have other amazing coaches too. Not just me.

Erica 29:24

All right.

Heather Flebbe 29:25

Um, so don't, don't forget to let everybody know to watch the world's toughest race on Amazon prime. You can watch all 10 episodes at once if you like or spread out the fun and excitement. And, um, you can follow at Tufts brace TV on Instagram or at team super fighters on Instagram.

Erica 29:45

Yay. I can't. I know what I'm doing on Friday.

Heather Flebbe 29:49

No, no, me too.

Erica 29:49

well, thank you so much for talking to me today, Heather. I never thought I'd interview you, but, um, I'm glad I did.

Heather Flebbe 29:55

Oh, thank you. Yeah, so it was very fun. Love to hear it again.

Erica 29:59

and

Heather Flebbe 29:59

Thank you for having me.

Erica 30:01

Yes. Congratulations on finishing.

Heather Flebbe 30:03

Thank you. Thank you.

Erica 30:05

Well, I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. I know it's crazy. All she went through. If you watch the show, it's even crazier, but Heather is definitely somebody. I love spending time with her. Positivity is contagious and she really does get you to. Do more than you thought you could. So being able to share her with you today was was fun for me. Remember, we are still giving away our free from fears book. You can get that at free from fears, book.com. If you want to learn more, the change program is coming up soon for our next round. You can check for updates@change.com. That's changed with two A's. Remember you can also leave us a review wherever you're listening to this podcast, we would love your revealed. So feel free to leave it. Okay, good stuff on the show. Next week, I will talk to you then. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something in today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through, and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped me in my anxiety journey to get a free copy of free from fears had to free from fears, book.com to find out more about the changing anxiety treatment program. Find us@changewithtwoways.com. Thanks again for listening. And remember you were not broken. You were not alone, and you were on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.