Erica 0:41

Holiday traveling during COVID job insecurity and all the stress you're dealing with this holiday season. We're talking about it today on the show. welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica and together with dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey to find a list of helpful free resources we offer head to lifefreeofanxiety.com Because you are not broken, you are not alone. And you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. Welcome into the show, Erica, with you going to be joined by Dr. Bar today to let you know you are under stress. So we are about to see 2020 go away soon. But before we can do that, we have some holidays to get through. And not just your ordinary holidays, we've got COVID stricken holidays. We've got downs. We've got traveling issues that we never had before. We've got things looking completely different than they've ever looked before. And I mentioned in this episode that it was really important to me to send Christmas cards out this year that I really wanted people to. No, that I was thinking about them and I do. Um, but just to show that we're all under stress, I found out this week that I sent one person, two Christmas cards and I sent somebody else a completely blank envelope. So if that doesn't tell you anything, um, it should, I, I guess, you know, it's just not the same this year. My mind is a bunch of different places. We're all trying to get through it. And we're going to talk about that with our show therapist, dr. BARR today, make him sound like a show pony or something. He's not, he's just a really good therapist. I promise. Oh, one last thing. There is a little bit of a whistle in this episode. The wind was going crazy where I was recording right by a window. So sorry about that. That's just the wind. All right. Let's get to the show now.

Dr. Charles Barr 2:44

all right. We're glad you're here and we're glad we're here.

Erica 2:48

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 2:49

Eric is here with

Erica 2:50

We're back.

Dr. Charles Barr 2:51

This is dr. Charles Barr. I'm a clinical psychologist and, Erica and I co-host this, if you're a steady listener, you already know that this is your first time. Welcome.

Erica 3:03

I just hang around for the ride.

Dr. Charles Barr 3:06

No, no, no.

Erica 3:08

Actually, I used to

Dr. Charles Barr 3:09

you're a vital part

Erica 3:10

I used to see you as, uh, my clinical psychologist for those who don't know, um,

Dr. Charles Barr 3:16

And you learned

Erica 3:17

I learned very well, which is, I mean, it's proof why we ended up doing the show together, something worked right.

Dr. Charles Barr 3:24

that's right.

Erica 3:25

we have a important topic to cover today and we're going to state the obvious here, but we're going to break it down for you as well. on the fact that you are under stress and we all are.

Dr. Charles Barr 3:39

We all are, whether you even feel it or not, you're you just. It's a given these days, our whole world is being stressed. This, this virus has the whole world. Sort of upside down and sideways. So, so that is part of the, the stress that we're all feeling. It's a corporate stress and we're all experiencing it differently. but we're all under stress. And so, um, we need to be aware that that's the case. And besides that. We have the

Erica 4:13

well, yeah, that's what I was going to say specifically because of the time we're in as well with the holidays hitting, we've had COVID during the summer, you know, we had it, When the sun was shining and, and people were still, you know, water skiing or doing some happier thing, hiking those outdoor things. But the holidays bring a certain, expectation. They bring a certain sadness, they bring memories, you know, they, they. Bring up personalities, they bring up past hurts. So it's always a stressful thing anyway, but to, to put COVID on top of it is a pretty crazy this year, and it's not something any of us could have predicted last Christmas. That's for sure that it would look this way next year.

Dr. Charles Barr 5:06

We certainly did not predict this. We did not anticipate it. Did we? And there was no reason to really,

Erica 5:12

And there was no way

Dr. Charles Barr 5:13

we did

Erica 5:14

Yeah, I just can't even believe, like I see pictures of how many people I was around last Christmas, over and over and over. And I'm just like, wow, like that would, that seems so dangerous now or something. I mean, it's just so weird to think like

Dr. Charles Barr 5:31

what were we thinking?

Erica 5:32

know we were being normal human

Dr. Charles Barr 5:34

And it was so normal.

Erica 5:35

It was so normal. I mean, I might worry like, Oh my goodness. I hope my kid doesn't come home with something from the other kid with a runny nose or something like that. But this is a whole other level. Um, and we don't want to scare you. We don't want to be stressed out right now. We, we just want to talk to you about reasons you're stressed and we want to talk about, well, what can we do about that today? we already talked about the first one. It's the holidays. So you're already stressed because of that. But you might also not be able to see your family and that's stressful. That's for sure.

Dr. Charles Barr 6:06

And so then, then we've got all the stresses of, okay. Do we decorate or do we not decorate? And how much do we decorate? Um, I think some people. Have decorated much earlier this year than before. I'm just trying to get some holiday spirit going and some people have decorated less. So it varies.

Erica 6:29

I've already watched home alone. That was before Thanksgiving. Now I'm like, wait, I've already watched that movie, but it

Dr. Charles Barr 6:37

I missed home alone, but I got home alone too.

Erica 6:39

Oh, that's a better one. Anyway, if you ask me, but I do think it's true. Like getting the holiday spirit up sooner this year was just. It's totally acceptable because this year is hard and the lights are so beautiful. Everything's so beautiful. So I, yeah, that's I think if you started celebrating Christmas in July, I don't blame you. Um, this year, uh, Um, I was wondering, have you had anybody that you, that isn't really understanding why you're not comfortable gathering Dr. BARR or have you come across, like, not understanding why somebody is not comfortable gathering with you? Because I imagine this is a big stressor for people this year. People feel so differently about this.

Dr. Charles Barr 7:24

Well, it is, it is a big stressor. Um,

Erica 7:27

do you hear about that in your

Dr. Charles Barr 7:28

um, I.

Erica 7:29

or on or on the phone? Okay.

Dr. Charles Barr 7:32

um, both, uh, in my family. I think we, we kind of, we kind of get it. I think we're, we're understanding. we have a couple people in our family who are health compromised and they're so they're at risk. And so we're, none of us are willing to put them at risk. And so when they declined to join us, that's fine. We understand why, um, And if they're coming, then that means other people aren't coming, uh, just so that we keep the risk down. Uh, but it makes it, it makes it a little difficult. So it has a, it has a different feel to it, but it's not bad. It's just different.

Erica 8:12

right.

Dr. Charles Barr 8:13

So, if you can think of it in those terms, that it's just different and it's not bad, it's not negative. It just is different, but it's enjoyable nonetheless. And so maybe you get to be a little quieter and, um, maybe you play different games or have different activities going on than you would ordinarily.

Erica 8:36

Yeah, definitely. And we've got a couple other stressors on the list. Um, we know that providing gifts, decorations, a holiday meal, all of that, you know, with job insecurity this year, I mean, that could be something that's majorly on your mind, not being able to provide the gifts that you usually can and can for your kids not being able to purchase food. I mean, the lines for food banks are extremely long right now. Um, You don't hear that

Dr. Charles Barr 9:07

insecurity and job insecurity are very, very difficult. Very

Erica 9:11

that's hugely stressful. Um, really, really stressful. So give yourself a break, if that's something you're going through. and then not to mention the fear of COVID and having all your hearing lately is the numbers are rising. You're probably knowing more and more people in your, um, you know, inner circle or outer circle even that are getting COVID. Um, I know I do. I'm definitely hearing about it more and more from people. I know. Yeah. and lastly, the world feels unrecognizable. This holiday season, we've got commercials with four people having dinner in them, you know, sitting like I saw this mom dressed up so glamorous. Glamorously, I should say. And she's with her daughter and her husband, and they just sit down in the commercial to have Christmas dinner and I'm like, wow, she really got fixed up for that to see really nobody at all. But that's how they're doing advertisement this year, which is, and then people on zoom and the commercial. I mean, it's weird. It's definitely weird right now. So that's kind of

Dr. Charles Barr 10:15

is well, okay now. Okay. So, so it can be scary or it can just be different. And that's there, there's the switch that I'm encouraging people to try to try to make that switch. It's just different. It doesn't have to be scary, but it's definitely different. It's still Christmas dinner. And if your tradition is to dress up for Christmas dinner, even if there's two or three of you, go ahead and dress up for Christmas dinner, that's perfectly fine. Um, and, and it may be worth all the effort to you just because it's the carrying on of the tradition.

Erica 10:53

Yeah. Just to give yourself that, um, that extra, you know, um, like you are still celebrating like this to differentiate the

Dr. Charles Barr 11:00

celebrating. That's

Erica 11:01

Yeah. Cause otherwise if you show up in your sweats and PJ's, it might feel just like the mesh of all the other days that are blending together right now.

Dr. Charles Barr 11:11

That's right. Even if I have no place to go except downstairs or in the next room, um, that's fine. You know, I'm still going to go there and still going to dress up for the occasion.

Erica 11:24

Yeah, there was, there was one thing that I, um, that was so crucial that I saw on this healthy children.org list. And it was about keeping your routine around the holidays. I think there's just so many ups and downs. There are so many expectations with holidays in general. Um, that on Thanksgiving this year, I really got out of my routine. Of exercise that week and, um, eating how I wanted. And it just, wasn't a good feeling mostly because of the time we're in. I think getting out of my routine during COVID is actually a lot more dangerous than getting out of my routine around the holidays. Any other year, it just had a real downer feeling, um, to stop getting the exercise to not eat right, because. Like after the holiday ended, I just went home, you know, down the street. And I don't know, it was just, I felt more tired. I felt more, you know, the Malays you talk about. And it just, I think it's really important to try to keep our routines with eating. Right. I know you're not going to eat right on Christmas day. That's not what I'm talking about, but eating right around the days, leading up exercising, getting your sleep, monitoring your child's screen time. Um, all of that I, I would say is way more important right now than ever

Dr. Charles Barr 12:47

Yes, I think so, too. So, so I think that it is very important for people to try to keep their, their routine, their health routines, their exercise routines, um, waking and sleeping. Um, those are. Those are simple things, but they're basic. And so they kind of set the stage for us. So if you can keep those basic routines, it will be helpful to you

Erica 13:13

Yes,

Dr. Charles Barr 13:13

and, and it helps keep things going, makes you feel more stable.

Erica 13:18

Um,

Dr. Charles Barr 13:19

some ways the world feels like it's sort of falling apart.

Erica 13:22

yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:23

so, so what are the, some of the other things we can do.

Erica 13:27

they make a budget. You can not overspend on gifts. You're probably seeing less people this year, so that's good. You don't have to buy as many gifts. There's this silver lining.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:37

That's right. Um, and probably not spending as much this year, just because the uncertainty and, and for those who have lost jobs or jobs are in threat, uh, they certainly aren't spending as much this year, nor should they. And, um, uh, I hope that they are going to be working with a budget and, uh, maybe the budget is that you right? People a card and saying, we wish you a Merry Christmas, but, you know, we're spending our money on food and rent rather than on gifts this year. And, um, you don't have to say that, but that's the, that's the reality. And people understand that, you know, it's like, no, if you send a heartfelt note, that may be, um, A new and precious gift. Anyway,

Erica 14:26

I think that'd be

Dr. Charles Barr 14:27

don't write notes very much anymore.

Erica 14:29

Yeah. What? Yeah, that's

Dr. Charles Barr 14:30

you know, people have gotten out of that habit. And, um, so it's not part of the culture the way it used to be. So if you send, send something like that, then that's, that's perfectly. Okay. So, so I don't want people to be under that stress of, I can't buy a gift and, and, um, and that is a stress. You know, I I'm afraid everybody in my family is going to be disappointed because I couldn't get them a gift. And that feels really bad to me because then they're going to be upset with me and they're going to be disappointed and I don't want them to be disappointed. I mean, it's this whole cycle that, that we'll get into and we have to just cut through that and say, well, here again, this is a different year, different rules apply. And, uh, and we're all in this together.

Erica 15:21

Yeah. I could see wanting to spend a lot of extra on the kids this year too, because they haven't had a very good year. Um, but try to remember that. They're your kids are, your kids are doing okay. There's nothing. You can buy them. Really. That's going to make them happy. Um, they really need you more than anything. They need your attention. They need you to be in a good non-stressed place. So if spending a bunch of money on their gifts is going to stress you out. They're going to feel it. Um, so I would just say, yeah, cause I totally am always like, my son is really into rubber he's so into ducks right now. I don't know what it is. And so yesterday I saw I'm just playing with his rubber duckies outside of the bath. Now we have to give him outside the bed cause he's obsessed. Um, and he wants to organize them. And so I hit go to Amazon and I buy him this giant rubber ducky. And now he's organizing all his little ducks with his giant duck and he's happy, but I'm, I'm realizing that Eric has eating the buy button a little bit, you know, too often now on Amazon, because we're at home. I'm always looking for ways to keep them entertained. You know, there's nothing, there's not a lot of places we can go. The park down the street has now shut down. Um, So, you know, I'm always looking for things to do. So if you're a parent feeling the guilt and wanting to spend the money, I get it. I just also would warn you try not to

Dr. Charles Barr 16:50

Well, the other thing there is, is to change your routine for your kids and become more lenient with screen time and, uh, other kinds of things that ordinarily you keep a tighter reign on. And it's, it's like kids are comfortable with routine also. Um, you know, they can, they can tolerate one day of. Being out of the routine because it's a special day, but then the routine helps put them back in control again. And so they know what to expect. So don't think that you're doing your kid a favor. If you do away with all the rules, uh, that doesn't necessarily, that's not necessarily a favor for your

Erica 17:33

or are you

Dr. Charles Barr 17:34

or you either one because, um, the, the rules help for you as well. And, uh, so. I would really encourage people to try to keep their routines as much as possible. You can be lenient on some things, but for, you know, your kids are going to be out of school for two, three weeks maybe. And, uh, so get them into a routine for that time. Uh, Now the kids here where we live have been going to school virtually. And so they're used to being at home all the time now, but they're not going to have class for those four or five hours. So try to try to get your vacation routine down, and that will be helpful to you to deal with the kids and, uh, help your mental health. And there's too. There'll be a lot less screaming.

Erica 18:27

Yeah. That's for sure. Now I wanted to talk about to the people who are traveling this year, because you might be traveling this year and that might be causing you stress too. Am I going to catch COVID? How can I keep my family safe? The plan I can make. And that's exactly what I think Dr. BARR would recommend is that you make a plan. Um, cause I know that's what you're, you're big on is what's what's gonna be your plan. So I just wanted to run it past you. The CDC recommends getting tested one to three days before your trip. And then again, three to five days afterward, and then they also recommend reducing non essential activities for a full week after travel or tend or for 10 days, if you don't get tested afterwards. So there's the plan. I think that's a good plan. I think there's no guarantees in life, but that sounds like a good plan to me. If you are going to see somebody this year, um, especially somebody you might, you know, have concern, bringing anything to.

Dr. Charles Barr 19:29

That's right. And it, um, If part of your plan is also to be sure you wear a mask, uh, when you're visiting, uh, whoever you're visiting, especially if you're visiting elder, uh, parents or grandparents or that kind of thing, you may want to wear a mask, even when you're with them,

Erica 19:49

Yeah,

Dr. Charles Barr 19:49

because you haven't been with them for a long time because you do, you do want to. keep, keep the elderly folks like me, uh, safe

Erica 20:00

not elderly.

Dr. Charles Barr 20:04

well I'm in the risk category anyway. Age-wise so, um, so consequently, um, I take that seriously. And so I, I'm not out doing as many things as I would like to be out doing. Um, but then. For us, the restriction has been, uh, Statewide again, almost, uh, just stay home whenever possible. You know, don't go out, don't visit your neighbors, don't visit your friends. Don't be with people from other households. Uh, so if you're traveling, you're going to be with all kinds of people who are from other households, uh, whether you're traveling by car or by. Uh, plane training, whatever. And, so keep your distance as best you can wear a mask, be safe.

Erica 20:51

your hands clean at

Dr. Charles Barr 20:52

other people safe.

Erica 20:54

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 20:54

Sanitized wash,

Erica 20:57

Don't touch your eyes. And, and I think then

Dr. Charles Barr 21:00

your face.

Erica 21:01

yeah, that's, that's kind of what you can do because you might be traveling and that might be that. And we're not here to say anything about. Anything other than just, you know,

Dr. Charles Barr 21:11

yeah. Be

Erica 21:12

plan you can make be careful. Um,

Dr. Charles Barr 21:14

and that will help you, you know, if you're keeping that plan. Yeah. That's your plan for being safe then? Um, I think you're going to be a lot less stressed and a lot less anxious about it.

Erica 21:26

yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 21:28

and, and that's, that's what we're advocating is that you be. Aware that there is stress involved in this. There is extra stress involved in travel this year that wasn't there last year. Um, so you have to make that, you know, put that into your plan,

Erica 21:45

Do you get to distance on an airplane now? Cause that might be kind of nice or

Dr. Charles Barr 21:50

Actually,

Erica 21:51

don't think you are right there still sitting

Dr. Charles Barr 21:53

No. I think the airlines are, are, you know, for a while they were leaving the center seats open. And I think a lot of them have abandoned that now, so that, that you will be sitting next to someone. But the research seems to say that the, the air in the airplane and. Once you're in the airplane, your air is going to be re really pretty pure. Um, they run it through the, the HEPA filter pretty quickly. So if you have the air from your air vent blowing down on your face, you're getting a really clean air

Erica 22:26

It's so funny. I always heard the

Dr. Charles Barr 22:28

into your airways.

Erica 22:29

yo, you get sick on planes because of the circulated air. And now they're like, no, actually.

Dr. Charles Barr 22:34

That's right now. Yeah. What we found out is with these good HEPA filters, they have that air is really pretty clean.

Erica 22:42

that's good.

Dr. Charles Barr 22:42

like 99%, um, virus free. So that's, that's really, really good. So the plane isn't necessarily the worst place to be.

Erica 22:52

yeah. And, and another thing, Oh, by the way, speaking of air, if you hear any strange sounds, we have bad wind today, so, and I am recording right by a window. So that is what you may be hearing. If you hear that. Um, but the other thing I wanted to bring up was, uh, doing your breathing relaxation exercises often, and consider looking into the change program for a better 20, 21. I'm excited about this new year. I think there's, we've got a vaccine, hopefully on the rise. I don't know. You know that it's going to be. The greatest thing in the world, but I hope it is. I hope it's the greatest thing in the world. it could be, it could be. Um, so I'm, I'm hopeful and I think 20, 21 is just, I just have a feeling it's going to be better. So I'm hoping this is a better year we're going into. And, um, and we'd love to have you on board with the change program to learn the skills that you really need to know. Um, because as we saw this year, life is completely unexpected and unpredictable and, um, there's some things we really want to see more people learn about how to. Combat anxiety, but also, get through times like this that are so hard.

Dr. Charles Barr 24:06

That's right. So if you, if you have had anxiety in the past and you've been suffering with anxiety, um, this is, uh, this is a good year for you to start out the year with the change change program and, and change your life for good in 2021. Um, it's a program that is not a difficult program, but it. Takes practice. But if you can practice, we will, we will teach you new ways of approaching life so that you are a lot less anxious so please, please check out the change program. You can go to change. That's spelled with two A's, C H a N G E change.com. And you can check out that program. I think you'll be pleased that you did.

Erica 24:58

I know you will. Yeah. That's the program Dr. Barra and I both use to, overcome anxiety. And if, if you are not quite ready to do that, we also offer a book. that we just asked you pay shipping for, and that will really explain to you a lot, probably a lot more than you think that we put in our book. It's got a, it's got a lot of stuff in it. Um, but it mostly will explain to you if you think the change program is right for you. so you can get that@thesameplaceatchange.com.

Dr. Charles Barr 25:26

Very

Erica 25:27

yeah. And then we just have here just finding joy in the little things was another tip we had for you, Dr. BARR, you kind of. Touched on that. I really wanted to send Christmas cards this year. Did you get mine? Dr. BARR?

Dr. Charles Barr 25:40

I

Erica 25:40

Okay, good. That was important. Good. That was important to me. I didn't spend any money. My mom and stepdad took the pictures. I didn't buy a new dress. I did not buy. Um, you know, I didn't pay for the photography, but I, and I had a gift card for the, for the, Christmas cards, but I knew that this year more than anything, I wanted to send cards because I wanted people to know, Hey, I'm thinking about you. they're not, I didn't write a note. I'm not that good. but I did send cards with our pictures because it's just been such a hard year and that was one thing I really wanted to do. So maybe there's like something out there that you want to do. Um, maybe you want to volunteer. You want to watch a funny Christmas movie or you want to, you know, and I like you were saying, sending heartfelt words this year more than ever would be really appreciated by some. So what, whatever it is you want to do for me, sending Christmas cards was, gave me a lot of joy, using zoom to connect with family,

Dr. Charles Barr 26:37

I was going to say, you know, may, maybe you stay in touch by zoom or FaceTime or one of those, applications.

Erica 26:44

you could even have your Christmas meals at the same time. Like you could be eating with somebody, you know, you're,

Dr. Charles Barr 26:50

you certainly

Erica 26:51

their house, or you're sitting down and eat dinner together. I don't know. I mean, you could do all kinds of things. I saw my cousins on Skype or on a zoom this year, which was sad, but nice. Cause I, I, I don't know if you've heard on the last podcast. This was the first year I had not gathered with all my relatives on my mom's side for Thanksgiving. So we did do a zoom call. Um, after dessert, which is nice just to see everyone's face.

Dr. Charles Barr 27:15

Well, I am glad that you did that. I I'm sorry that you weren't able to see all your cousins, but, um, that's, that's the kind of thing that, that we're all experiencing. Uh, and, So rather than focusing on the fact that, Oh, it was so sad that we didn't get to do that. It's like, yes. But look at what we did get to

Erica 27:34

Yeah, and this is 2020, so, you know, we're quite blessed it, I said in the last podcast, we're quite blessed if that was the worst thing that happened to us,

Dr. Charles Barr 27:44

um, things are still. You know, various parts of the country now are, um, we're in drought and high wind and fire danger. Uh, the Northeast is in a nor'easter right now. Um, and they're blanketed with snow and ice and cold temperatures. Um, winter blasts are going all the way down to Florida. You know, every place is having some kind of different things that they're contending with as, as they celebrate and. There are still good things to celebrate, and certainly we can celebrate one another and celebrate life itself. And so I hope we will do that. You mentioned volunteering, um, if you're in a category where you're not at risk and you do want to volunteer, it appears that the food banks are very much in need of volunteers to help prepare that. And, uh, Get their food stuffs ready for all the people that are having trouble getting those kinds of supplies and, and keeping their food insecurity at Bay.

Erica 28:55

Yeah, you could reach out maybe to your church or your local food pantry or, um, whatever, just see what the need is. And, um, and, and other, the other thing is I just wanted to say back real quick on the testing. Um, I don't think people realize it's not too hard to get a test. And I think Kaiser is, I don't know if this has changed universally, but I heard Kaiser is actually doing the spit test now. So no more nasal swab. At least in one part they were. Yeah. So if so, I mean, take advantage of testing if, you know, just, I just really, cause I don't hear a lot about testing and that I don't really understand why I don't hear it being utilized more because it is pretty available. So, um, don't be afraid of that, I think it's a good thing. The tests are here, so we should

Dr. Charles Barr 29:47

they are. And, and it is good if you're going to be traveling and being with other people.

Erica 29:52

This is not how all Christmases will look. We will get back. It's we're going to get past this.

Dr. Charles Barr 29:59

That's right where we, we hope that the immunizations are going to be effective and, um, So we're, we're hopeful for that and let's, let's be hopeful for it and, uh, look forward to better days in the future. And then the meantime we'll be safe and, and keep each other safe until the vaccines get here. And we can figure out what long-term is going to look like, because we don't even know what that's going to look like anymore. So it'll be different in some ways, but that doesn't mean it has to be bad. It's just different and we'll get used to different.

Erica 30:42

Until we

Dr. Charles Barr 30:43

So enjoy your holidays. Enjoy preparing for them and relax your way through. Be sure and breeze

Erica 30:52

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 30:52

a good holiday.

Erica 30:53

And accept, accept where we're at and accept that it's not going to stay this way forever. And, yeah, we, we will be back with you next week. I will, I will be back with you. I'm going to have a guest on next week and, uh, we should, I think be talking to you again before Christmas. So, um,

Dr. Charles Barr 31:13

hope so.

Erica 31:14

yeah, we hope so. Lord willing, as my mom always says,

Dr. Charles Barr 31:18

That's right.

Erica 31:18

But we do

Dr. Charles Barr 31:19

we say, in Kentucky, Lord willing and the Creek

Erica 31:22

that's right. I knew you had a Southern one for me. And we, uh, we just wanted to say, we do appreciate you. We're thinking about you this holiday season. We think about you a lot. Actually. That's how we plan our episodes is by thinking about you out there. you can always send us an email erica@freeofanxiety.com, um, and change.com. Change with two A's. Is where you'll find all of our fantastic and life-changing resources. So until next time, Dr. BARR, thank you for being here with me today.

Dr. Charles Barr 31:53

Well, and thank you, Erica. And we'll see you next

Erica 31:57

We'll see you next week. Okay. Well, we hit the hard topics of this episode, but next week, we're going to hit a harder topic. We're going to talk about grief and the holidays, and I'm going to be joined by my very good friend, Gina Pastori she's an author. She's been through grief herself. She helps others walk through grief. Now she has a radio show. Um, we're going to just, you're going to get to know her. You're going to love her. I promise. Also make sure you rate the show. You can do that on iTunes or wherever you're listening to us. Um, so other people can find us and I will talk to you guys next week. Thanks for being here today. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something in today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through, and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped me in my anxiety journey to get a free copy of free from fears head to freefromfearsbook.com to find out more about the CHAANGE anxiety treatment program. Find us at CHAANGE.com Thanks again for listening. And remember you are not broken You are not alone and you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.