Erica 0:41

Hello. Hello, back with you for the live free of anxiety podcast, dr. Burris back to, uh, he's going to talk about hypotension, Andrea, and we are going to discuss how common that is, um, what to do if you live with somebody with hypochondria during this tents, COVID time and a lot more. So stay with us. welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica and together with dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey to find a list of helpful free resources we offer head to live free of anxiety.com. Because you are not broken, you are not alone. And you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. But first, I want to say hello to those of you who took the plunge and decided to sign up for change. This is the 16 week anxiety program that both dr. BARR and I use to overcome our own anxiety, big smile on my face for each and every one of you. When I heard you signed up, I'm so excited for the really incredible things that are to come for you. So we're kicking things off officially on August 3rd. And I believe the last day to register is July 31st. So coming up quick, make sure you grab your spot. Um, but before we dive in, I wanted to address something that we've been asked recently. And that is what does it mean to be a part of the beta launch group? Does that mean that this is a group program and the answer is it can be. Um, the short answer is changes a 16 week structured proven program. This is the first time we've done it online. So we are limiting it to a small group at first. Um, but it is still a very established program that hundreds of thousands of people have gone through. We've only made some updates. We've only made things better. Um, but yes, this is the first time anybody has done it has done it online before that, uh, you were getting papers and CDs mailed to you, which is actually the way I did it. Dr. BARR gave me a packet each week, a physical copy that, um, worked just as well, but this is kind of just. A lot easier. So as part of this launch, yes, we will have a place for everyone to gather and support each other. So that's actually another benefit that I didn't have when I did the program that I would have, uh, would be to, you know, have to go through it with other people. Um, but it is totally optional. So we do understand that privacy is important. Um, we encourage you to come up with whatever username you want. We don't want you to necessarily even use your real name. Um, this isn't going to be a Facebook group. We know you probably don't want the whole world knowing your business. Um, some of you might be a little more open to just, you know, everything and some of you might not be, we understand that's personal preference. So even if the idea of online discussion does not interest you, it's still there if you need it. So if you want to ask questions or share victories, which I'm. So excited for the victories to get shared, um, or get an opinion from dr. Barra or myself, we'll be there for you. So you can do this program solo. You can do it from anywhere. Nobody needs to bother you if that's what you don't want, and you don't have to bother with anyone, if you don't want. So to find out more about the program, go to change.com/beta, and that's changed with two A's AA change.com/beta change with two ways to find out more. Okay. So much good stuff ahead. Let's get to it.

Dr. Charles Barr 4:18

it's good to be back with you. I've had a three week break here or so. I always enjoy being on the program. And today we would like to talk to you about hypochondria and especially in this day of COVID-19 when it is on the increase again, it's like, Erica, here we go

Erica 4:38

No, no. I know that we talked a little bit too about. what's normal dr. BARR and I have both taken our temperatures in this times but I think that's a good conversation we're going to get into about what's normal. What's. Not how are you checking too much? We're going to talk about that today. but dr. BARR, I wanted to tell you, I just watched a documentary about, David Foster, you know, who, you know who that is. He's the musical musical producer of Celine Dion. And I don't know how many Grammys Emmys, well, I guess not Emmy's, but like just a million Grammys. Winter and, you know, just super successful, super rich, but I was watching it and I, I saw some, you know, it was like a good hour in and, they, they were, I feel that he, that while he reveals that he has not taken an elevator in 30 years and my first thought is, I know, and he's taken like something million stairs. And my first thought is like, wow. I'm so glad that somebody can relate to me, even though it's not me anymore, I can take elevators. But my first thought was like, wow, I always felt so weird about that. So I'm kind of glad to see somebody. So it was accessible out there who couldn't do it, like I couldn't, but then I also thought. I am so, so grateful that that's not my life anymore. Just watching him take all those stairs. And you know, I have a stroke, I have a stroller now I have a baby and I, I could not live like that anymore. And so I was thinking I'm so grateful that in 11 weeks of doing the change program, it's a 16 week program. But in the 11th week I was taking the elevator and I was, you know, kissing the stairs. Goodbye. Cause it was not a fun way to live. It's embarrassing. It's it's stressful. It's hard when you have all

Dr. Charles Barr 6:25

it is stressful. Now I know that if you're doing that many stairs, you have to be in good shape. So there's a silver lining maybe, but, Oh my I'm, I'm so sorry to hear that. I know that's a constant struggle for him. my heart goes out

Erica 6:41

I know. I wish I could give them the change program.

Dr. Charles Barr 6:44

that's sad.

Erica 6:45

If somebody knows David Foster, let us know. We'll get them there,

Dr. Charles Barr 6:49

That's right. That's interesting. And, and you're right. this severe anxiety and agoraphobia, the phobias, they just are no respecter of persons they don't care whether you're rich or poor, they don't care what race you are. They don't care what your job is. it just doesn't make any difference.

Erica 7:11

the resources in the

Dr. Charles Barr 7:12

belief you have. No.

Erica 7:15

Yeah, it's a, he's also not a train taker too, I guess. And all the resources in the world and not able to, to make this

Dr. Charles Barr 7:23

advantage of

Erica 7:23

Yeah. I mean, he could, I mean, he could probably have breakfast, served him in bed in the morning. You can have somebody carry it. Maybe probably, you know, as somebody to do to take care of every little thing. But yeah, when you don't have the answers, I mean, the avoidant life is the only way. So that's what we do not wish for you, at all, which is why we do this podcast and, and, you know, we, yeah, we definitely encourage you to check out change because dr. BARR and I have both dealt with our own anxiety. I've lived an extremely avoidant life before. but yes, do do check out the program. If, if that's something you're struggling with, because I know for a fact it, doesn't not, you do not have to live like that. And dr. Bar knows that too. but if you, if you want to learn more about our book, on the change program, before you ever jump in, there's free from fears, book.com, you can check that out. Or the change program is changed with two A's dot com slash beta to learn more. Just, just, I feel like totally compelled to say that because of what we just talked about, and I know how bad it is.

Dr. Charles Barr 8:30

Well, that's right. And speaking of the change beta, our change program is beginning again, at the beginning of next month and, is going to be available again for the first time in a year or so.

Erica 8:46

Yeah, change.com/beta. And that's, if you want to be a part, you can be a part of a group. You don't have to be a part of a group. so if you're into privacy or it's not, you're not interested in a group. Well, you don't have to, you can do this totally alone. You can do this from anywhere and you can use our podcast as additional learning and support as well. So, Yeah. but we are, let's talk about hypochondria and, dr. Dr. Bart, can I ask you real fast? This was actually Kyle, my husband's question. And I, I have not asked you this yet. What is the difference between hypochondria and health anxiety or, or is there one? Cause I hear about how things it a lot these days.

Dr. Charles Barr 9:24

Well, that actually is one of the subcategories that we have broken hypochondria down into

Erica 9:31

Oh, okay.

Dr. Charles Barr 9:32

A hypochondria really comes out of the diagnostic and statistical manual. Four, and the new one, DSM five really eliminates that as a category, even although it's in our popular language. And so, you know, if somebody says, Oh, you know, you're a hypochondriac and everybody kinda knows what that is without really maybe knowing that the official definition. so the new, the new categories have broken it into, Somatic symptom disorder and illness, anxiety disorder. And so a really health anxiety would probably be in the illness, anxiety disorder category. So it's, it's sort of a subcategory of that, of health anxiety.

Erica 10:19

Yeah, there's a certain amount of checking. Uh, that's normal we've both, you know, taken our temperatures. We've both, you know, I have an oximeter and that's not obsessive checking, so, um,

Dr. Charles Barr 10:35

we all are sensitive in nature and we're all a little bit suggestible and sometimes we're more suggestible than others. And when you're in that high anxiety state, you're terribly suggestible. And so if you get an idea in your head, Oh no. What if I have X disorder? Well, it is really hard to get that out of your head. So you go to the doctor, you get checked out for it, and I'm guilty of that as well. And you said that you are as well. So it makes sense because we're people who have experienced this anxiety and we are sensitive. And I know I went to the doctor one time and I didn't, I don't remember what it was for, or even this cause this was several years back. But I went to him and I said, I think I have this because I have these three symptoms and he started laughing and he said, well, yeah, you have these three symptoms, but you don't have the two necessary symptoms, as like, Oh, okay, well then hearing that totally relieved me. And I could put that away. it's

Erica 11:43

you're the, sir, you're the psychologist though, right?

Dr. Charles Barr 11:47

yeah.

Erica 11:48

needing to be done? Got

Dr. Charles Barr 11:49

Like I said, it is no respecter of persons, you know? So, so there are psychologists that experienced this. you know, one of the things that, you know, thinking of that, I heard that, one of the things that I heard that really surprised me when I first heard it was, that there are flight attendants who are terribly afraid to fly. You know, and become phobic of flying. And it's like, wow, I could see how that could happen after I thought about it. So with this disorder, it can get you wherever you may be.

Erica 12:21

If something offsets you. Yeah. Anything can kind of switch, but we're talking about, we're talking about kind of for you and I were talking about people who have not dealt with, severe hypochondria. We've had our own anxieties in different ways, but, But we want to also get it out there. That hypochondria is not crazy. Chival Candelaria is a form of anxiety. it, you know, obsessions can get more serious and, and just because we don't have hypochondria and you do doesn't mean you have something really wrong with you. what we want to do is kind of. Paint. what, what does hypochondria look like right now? especially during this tense time, when, when everybody is sort of checking their temperature, right? So there's, there's a certain degree of that going on. That's that's normal and that's

Dr. Charles Barr 13:13

well. Okay. And why are we checking? Our temperature is because that's one of the primary symptoms of COVID-19. So, having a fever, chills and sweating. headache, sore throat, loss of taste or smell. And that's, that's kind of an, a unique one to this disorder. Although there are other things that can cause that, a cough, usually a dry cough.

Erica 13:36

Yeah.

Dr. Charles Barr 13:37

If you start having some of these kinds of symptoms right now. It's going to be scary to you because your first thought is, is probably going to be COVID-19. Oh no. What if I have this? So, if you have some of these symptoms, call your doctor, make sure you're. Going down the right path, but then trust what your doctor is saying to you. This one, and, get the test and see, and also check yourself what exposure might you have had to this? have you been in touch with somebody who isn't today? COVID-19 you know, do you have it close contact with a nurse or a. First responder or somebody like that. Have you traveled outside the United States in the last two weeks?

Erica 14:28

Yeah. That those are all very important points. I'm glad you said that, but there's, we also have an article from, medical news today. It's Timothy J leg and it's just kind of covering, obsessions and anxieties there. It's, you know, it says here that people who have hypochondria may experience or obsessions and anxieties, and more than usual during the COVID-19 outbreak, which of course only makes sense. but we've got a couple of things that might be a little more worrisome than, you know, somebody who can takes their temperature every now and again. Or, I don't know about worrisome, but just just ways to show that it's more of obsession than, yeah. I'm thinking a cough must be a sign of lung cancer. Constantly researching symptoms of illnesses, requesting multiple doctor's visits or calls often on the same day or for the same reason, avoiding certain objects, such as door handles in case they're contaminated, repeated checking of the body for symptoms of a disease and avoiding going to the doctor for fear of receiving a diagnosis. So a lot of things there that kind of show that it's starting to get into. The way of your life, or it's gotten in the way of your everyday life. This is, this is pretty much all consuming. Whereas I think, you know, somebody like me, I might read about a fever and think, huh, I feel a little hot, but then kind of just forget that I even thought that earlier in the day, cause life sorta

Dr. Charles Barr 15:52

It's interesting. And the list of things you were listing there mentioning the last thing you mentioned of avoiding the doctor for fear of receiving a diagnosis is just the opposite of earlier, where you're making multiple doctor visits, you know, imploring them to please find out what's wrong with you and help me help me. I know I'm sick somehow. And, It's so, so you're, you're caught in that bind. You know, some people are avoidant of the doctors and some, and scared to death to be at the doctors for fear, they're going to hear bad news. And at the same time have symptoms that scare them, that they really do want some answers to, but it's hard to let themselves get the answers. again, the anxiety. Just can recap it. and it loves doing that. we don't want you to be anxious that way.

Erica 16:52

Yeah. And, and we've got, a little list here about, things you can do. There's, you know, you can keep a thermometer by your bedside. Check on that maybe once a day. if you can limit it to that, you can get a facial, you can use a mask in public, always to give yourself that peace of mind. Obviously these are really everyday things that the CDC recommends any way. you can keep. You know the hand sanitizer in your car, but I think there's also things you can do, like making sure you're getting enough sunshine during the day. I know I'm really low in vitamin D right now, probably from my life indoors for the, for, you know, most of the twenties 20. so sunshine

Dr. Charles Barr 17:33

that's true for a lot of people probably.

Erica 17:36

Yeah. And sunshine to me, I think is so huge for just everyday wellbeing. I personally don't really even feel well until I get a little sun in my day, but I'm such a Southern Cal. So that's probably a little bit of why, but, Well, I think I'll say you can not ever underestimate your relaxation exercises. I love what Barbara was talking about, on the last podcast about how she would, she was fearful of flying. So she'd get on that plane. And she was pretty much like relaxing herself to the point of falling asleep. And, um, and I, yeah, I think that's, that's, you know, that's what she needed to do and, and the change program, definitely will teach you how to do that. And. And, and amongst many other things that would really help you with this condition, just getting your body relaxed, but that's, but you can still, you know, do these on your own@lifefreeofanxiety.com slash relax. We have dr. Barr's excellent relaxation exercise there that you can use. and, um, yeah,

Dr. Charles Barr 18:39

Another thing that you may do is, is to keep a journal, a journal about your feelings, journal about, where your symptoms are, how bad they are, um, so that you can put it on paper and, try to get a hold of the symptoms. And what's really happening to you by putting it on paper. There's nothing magic about that. And yet it's very. Powerful kind of technique. So if you can put it on paper, that will be very helpful to you, I think, and can help you manage the anxiety and, manage the fears.

Erica 19:15

and, and avoid those headlines at all costs because I, as far as I'm concerned, the headlines are changing it. I don't even pay attention anymore, unless it's something I really need to know. Like, California has shut down hair salons last week. Well, I needed to know that, but as everything else, I'm just, I'm tired of the back and forth. So I just think that's, that's a big deal. Just these headlines, I think can do just terrible damage, especially to sensitive types.

Dr. Charles Barr 19:41

Yes, they can. They're they're very frightening. So, uh, do limit your news intake. That's one of my

Erica 19:49

yeah. That's one of your

Dr. Charles Barr 19:51

recommendations to people is, uh, always do a check on how much are you listening to the news? Because it is, especially if you're in an, in a sensitized state. There is no good news or hardly any good news. It's just too much bad news to, to, it will overwhelm your system.

Erica 20:11

Yeah, I think too sometimes when you go out and maybe you. Also come home and you think, did I just catch the coronavirus? Well, I would question, I would ask myself too, like, did somebody sneeze right by you without a mask? Did, did you know, did somebody cough directly on you? Did you know, for a fact you put your hand on something and didn't sanitize after where somebody directly put germs and if. All of those answers are no, you know, even if somebody sneezed with a mask, you're very unlikely to catch it. W I mean, if you're going to mask zones like the supermarket and such, I just want to just remind you that the masks are really just for. Mostly for, in case you somebody sneezes. I mean, really it's because probably aren't going to

Dr. Charles Barr 20:57

or coughs.

Erica 20:58

Right. Sneezes or cops

Dr. Charles Barr 21:00

and, and so what we're really recommending is, is to try to use your thinking, to control your anxiety, you know, use what's probable and what's possible, you know, and we want you to focus on, okay, well, what's probable, is it possible? You caught it. Yes, it's possible. But. Is it probable? No. none of these things happen that would up my chances. So, so we want you to try to see if that probability will be of help to you.

Erica 21:33

dr. Bar, I wanted to ask for the person who is living with the high, somebody with hypochondria during COVID-19 and are maybe. You know, being asked to, you know, to really socially distanced from them world or, to really, you know, hunker down with this person who has hypochondria, maybe the person who does not have it is feeling like this is too rigid. This is too strict. I can't handle how much. My, whoever I live with, um, you know, wants me to live a certain way. That's not how I feel. What would you say to somebody who, who lives with somebody with hypochondria?

Dr. Charles Barr 22:07

Severe anxiety in any of its forms, including avocado, Andrea, takes a toll, not on the, not only on the person who has it, but on the people who live with that person. So it's not just the people with hypochondria that have, you know, those, those folks have a problem. And, their loved ones have a problem too. And what I would say to the people who are living with them is, trying to find ways that you are not feeding into their system. you don't always have to directly challenge them because oftentimes that doesn't help. But maybe you as a family member can talk about the probability of something happening rather than the possibility, because, your loved one is engaged in possibility thinking rather than probability. Thank you. So you can, you can bring in that voice of reason a little bit, hopefully. but I, I do understand that, family members are also highly affected. By the person who has these kinds of disorders. So it, it's hard to make a blanket statement, but I would say to the families that we understand that, that it's difficult for you as well. And, try as best you can not to get, not to cooperate and try track, get trapped in your loved ones. Crap. They're already trapped. And if you join them in the trap, that doesn't necessarily help them.

Erica 23:37

Have you seen, people have success with hypochondria, who, who did the change program? We've walked so many people through it in your office. I'm just curious. Would that apply here?

Dr. Charles Barr 23:49

actually I have, I've had, two or three people who, had very difficult health anxiety, or, symptom checking, very. debilitating kinds of things that have really gotten significantly better and, and, freed themselves up to be able to go and do, and not. Be in such a, obsessive worry. it seems that obsessive worry is, is one of the hallmarks of hypochondriasis as well. You know, you're just always worried about your health and what the symptoms are and what dread thing you're going to catch next.

Erica 24:28

that's cool to

Dr. Charles Barr 24:29

yes, it has. Yes, it has failed and I think it will help.

Erica 24:34

I'm sure that's cool for you too, from a perspective of starting and seeing so much worry to, seeing, you know, success of, of not. I cause I, I think that probably with hypochondria, people might think that their thoughts aren't going to turn off no matter what. because that might feel more exotic that they, you know, they worry about something so specific and maybe that's not curable. anxiety looks so different all the time. I think we all convince ourselves that ours is the worst. It's the most exotic, it's the most unheard of and treatable. So I, I think it's probably fun for you to see the end results. That are so great.

Dr. Charles Barr 25:13

Well, I, I'm not sure if fun is the word, but rewarding certainly

Erica 25:17

fun.

Dr. Charles Barr 25:17

the word. you know, it is very rewarding to watch someone walk their way out of, of anxiety and, to. Shed themselves and get rid of the terrible feelings of banks that they endure and, start living rather than just enduring. And, so that is very rewarding. And, I just really want to encourage people to check out the change program with us, had changed.com, because that. slash beta. I keep forgetting that donor. And, because it is a highly effective treatment, that has free many, many people. And. We'll continue to do so. And we would love for people to take advantage of that. I went through it myself, with my own anxiety. And, you went through it as well. So we, we are recipients of this program as well as providers of it.

Erica 26:20

Yep. And, uh, let's see, we've got a question from a listener, which kind of has to do with what we're talking about because the change program is great for everything that has to do with this, but, um, what would you tell our listener? Who said, who wants to know what she can do about a racing mind before her doctor's appointment

Dr. Charles Barr 26:42

a racing. My boy, that the racing mind before a doctor's appointment in particular, I don't know if you've had this experience. I certainly have, I'll go to the doctor and I want to have two or three questions answered and I get back home and it's like, I totally forgot to ask that question.

Erica 27:01

like every month when I

Dr. Charles Barr 27:02

I don't necessarily. Yeah, and I don't necessarily consider myself having a racing mind, but you get there and things happen and the doctor starts talking about something else. You completely lose track of where you are and, you get out of there without having to ask the questions. Okay. So one of the things that can be helpful, particularly if your racing mind is connected with the doctor visit itself is to write down your questions for the doctor. Sure. Take that, that list of questions with you, and you might even give it to the doctor. You might even hand it to, to your doctor and say, here are the, the questions that I am dealing with and would like some. Input on. You can say to the doctor before he, or she gets up to leave. Cause they don't want to give you very much time, as you will know. let me check my list of questions here before you go so that you at least have that. You can consider it a cheat sheet if you want. but, uh, I think that's a very important thing to be able to do. The other thing is to breathe. Uh, let your mind calm down, uh, try to try to breathe and let your body relax. talk to yourself about. Slowing your thoughts down, letting your body become more relaxed and trying to slow the whole thought process pan, that is a very uncomfortable symptom of the anxiety is when your mind just takes off and it's racing and it's hard to even capture the thoughts. Sometimes they go by so quickly.

Erica 28:49

Yeah, and yeah, I think the whole, but did I hear one time if your body's calm, your mind is calm. So, yeah, even those relaxation exercises leading up, maybe by a week or a month, or as much as you can, before that appointment coming up could be a big help to you. for sure. Well, I think that's it. Doctor bars or anything else you wanted to add about this episode?

Dr. Charles Barr 29:12

,one other thing I would say, Erica, um, I noticed that you, uh, have a little meter that measures the oxygen on your finger, and I believe the correct pronunciation on that is oximeter.

Erica 29:25

the seminar. That's why you went to medical school and I didn't, well, it wasn't technically medical school for you or was it

Dr. Charles Barr 29:30

No, I didn't go to medical school, but I believe that's the correct

Erica 29:34

know, a lot of medical stuff in general, I've noticed that, yeah, I thought it was oximeter cause that's how it reads, but I, I, I like, my mom was always such a stickler on pronunciation. She didn't really, you know, her first language is Spanish and she's a real big, Lover of the English language too. So growing up and mispronouncing things was never okay. So for me to get corrected is actually a very positive thing, because of how I was raised. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, ox. What is it? Say it again. I need to spell it wrong, so I won't see the why. Okay. All right. Well,

Dr. Charles Barr 30:15

the emphasis is on the second syllable.

Erica 30:17

I see this has been so educational in so many ways. I liked, I think this episode is a, is a good one and I'm, I'm glad we're all gonna walk around the right pronunciation proximity now.

Dr. Charles Barr 30:31

There you go.

Erica 30:32

And just so everyone knows dr. BARR is coming off a, a tent sleepover with his grandkids. So we're glad he was able to get enough sleep last night to, come on and do this show with us and be positive. But it sounds like he slept pretty well. Cause he had an air mattress. That was our,

Dr. Charles Barr 30:49

that's right. I lucked out the kids ended up electing that I could be on the air mattress. So that was

Erica 30:57

That's so nice of them.

Dr. Charles Barr 31:00

We had a great evening.

Erica 31:01

a fun grandpa

Dr. Charles Barr 31:02

slept better than I did.

Erica 31:04

All right. Well, yes, let's let's talk next week. What do you say?

Dr. Charles Barr 31:09

Sounds good to me.

Erica 31:10

right. And then, um,

Dr. Charles Barr 31:11

all will join

Erica 31:12

Yes, join us and rate us it's always a good day to rate us wherever you're listening to this podcast. you can send me an email@ericalifefreeofanxiety.com. I'm always happy to, chat with you. So, erica@lifefreeofanxiety.com and have a great day.

Dr. Charles Barr 31:28

Okay, so your next week,

Erica 31:30

Right. Well, that is a wrap. Hope you enjoyed that episode. It was great to have dr. BARR back, um, don't forget free from fears, book.com. That is kind of the foundation of the program. So we've peaked your interest in this episode, which I hope we have, uh, had to free from fears. Book.com. If you want to find out more about change, that's changed with two A's head to change.com/beta, and we've put together a little video that explains a lot about the program and why it's helped hundreds of thousands people overcoming anxiety. So not a new program. We came out with Nope, already established, just updated a little bit better now, a little bit simpler, a little bit more with the times and technology, but same proven techniques to help you overcome anxiety, which. Like I said before helped me help dr. BARR. Um, that's changed.com with two A's slash beta. Okay. Thank you for being here today and lots of good stuff ahead on our podcasts that we're excited to bring to you and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something in today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through, and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped me in my anxiety journey to get a free copy of free from fears had to free from fears, book.com to find out more about the changing anxiety treatment program. Find us@changewithtwoways.com. Thanks again for listening. And remember you were not broken. You were not alone, and you were on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.