Guest: Barbara 0:41

Then at the 15 week Mark, I knew. my body was relaxed in ways it never had been. And I thought, don't think about it. Just go down there and see what happens. I was in the air and I remember thinking, I'm where I want to be. I'm a whole lot better than I used to be.

Erica Roth 0:59

Back with you for the live free of anxiety podcast. And will soon be back with you with dr. BARR? I know you've probably missed dr. Bar. Um, I do have to, but he's coming back soon. I think the next episode we should be together again. Um, but this week I am super excited because we have Barbara Linney on Barbara reached out to us a couple months ago saying that she did the change program and that her story is also featured in the. Book a free from fears, which is our free giveaway right now that book, you can get it@freefromfiercebook.com, which is a really great thing to do because it's free. And eight is the roadmap to you getting better for your anxiety. It's the foundation of the change program. So that's free from fears, book.com. Be sure to check that out. but Barbara story is in that book about her beginning. A situation before she started the 16 week program of change and then how she was doing in the middle and then how she was doing when she finished the program. So, um, her story is in there about. How she did not sleep for eight days, but by the end of the 16 weeks she was parasailing. So I know that's kind of hard to believe. I wasn't parasailing, just so you know, by the end of 16 weeks, I don't think I ever really want to do that. But. I was taking elevators, which is a pretty big deal because I was not taking them when I started the program. And I really couldn't even stand the thought of taking them. I was a stairs person. Only at that point. I was having too many attacks with claustrophobia, just trying to do stuff like that. But Barbara story is not different than mine. She was. Having anxiety from flying and other stuff you're going to hear about right now, but you can check out her story. She has a different name in the book. Her name in the book is Betsy Lewis and they changed it for privacy. So Betsy Lewis's story is actually Barbara Lenny's story. If you, if you check that out, when you grab the book@freefromfiercebook.com. and also the change program. The 16 week anxiety program that I just mentioned. You're going to hear about that a lot in this episode and the success. That Barbara had with it. We right now, for the first time have this program online and we are offering a small beta launch group starting August 3rd. So if you want to join in on that, which I really suggest you do head to change.com/beta to be a part of this first group, and you're going to get a discount cause you're the first group to sign up. So be sure to check that out that is changed with two A's dot com slash beta. Okay. I can't take it any longer. Let's get to the show because there's so much good stuff ahead in this interview. Welcome to the life free of anxiety podcast, where each week we'll bring you another discussion to help you on your way to overcoming your fears. I'm Erica, and together with Dr. Charles Barr, a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in anxiety. We'll be your guides on this journey because you are not broken, you are not alone, and you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. All right. Well, I am very excited to have Barbara Linney. Join us. Hi Barbara. Thanks for being here.

Guest: Barbara 4:21

Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here.

Erica Roth 4:23

It's interesting. You actually found us because you use the change program in 1984. It's kind of, it's had a. A couple of kids had one over one other owner in between dr. BARR and I, and it's something you've been recommending to people since 1984, because you used it yourself. Correct?

Guest: Barbara 4:45

That's right

Erica Roth 4:45

you, you reached out to us and found our podcast and we got a lovely email from you. And then we realized that you are in your story is actually featured in the book free from fears, which is our giveaway right now, a free from fears, book.com. And I really like how they put your story in. First of all, you have. You have a fake name? You're Betty Lewis in the book, but, but we've got your beginning of the starting the program. And then we've got your middle point of doing the program and your end and yeah, only a matter of weeks from when you are, you start by not sleeping for eight days straight to parasailing and Alka poco by the end. So. So tell me how, tell me a little bit about yourself. First of all, I'm I'm jumping ahead. Where are you located now? What's your professional background? Just tell me a little bit about you.

Guest: Barbara 5:41

I'm located now in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I, we began at my husband's career here in 1972. He was a pediatrician here in Charlotte and I was the mother of. Two young children got a master's degree here. And when I finished the master's degree was when I had my first panic attack, but I'll get back to that. Um, I taught in colleges here at university of North Carolina at Charlotte and had a job at Queens college for a year before we moved. And we moved for his career. I went to Florida and was extremely unhappy there the first year, even though I had agreed to go, uh, I had had a couple of panic attacks before we left. And I kinda thought that I don't know the higher powers were getting after me because I didn't want to move and leave Charlotte, which was just part of my wild thinking then. But anyway, I had a couple, but then when I got to Florida, I had more. And then I went eight days without sleep. And I called my friend up here who had recommended the change program. And it said, tell me more about it. And I'll skip ahead to, I got better and we'll do the details of that. I taught in five colleges in three colleges in Florida and got. All of the coursework done for a PhD at the university of South Florida in Tampa.

Erica Roth 7:13

Okay.

Guest: Barbara 7:14

I was offered a job in Tampa where I worked for the American college of physician executives. And I began teaching communication skills to physicians who were moving into administrative positions. And that caused me to travel. All over the country for 22 years, doing that without the change program that would not have been able to happen.

Erica Roth 7:39

Hmm. Yeah. It seems like these stories are so typical. There's panic attacks then are there, there's generally a move somewhere in there or people. Yeah. You know, I have some issues with anxiety. I hear that all the time. There's a big move, a big change, big life change. And then a lot of times travel involved with, with jobs and careers and. And what am I going to do if you know, I have a panic attack and I'm, Mmm. You know, this is my job. This is my livelihood. What was your first panic attack? Like what were your symptoms like really when you were in your anxiety?

Guest: Barbara 8:18

Well, the very surprising thing to me is I woke up in the night with it. I was asleep. I woke up with a pounding heart, sweat all over. Had I had a dream that I was in a coffin. I jumped out of the bed and ran to the window to open the blinds, to see if the outside was still there. And I was on vacation in Florida, had finished the master's degree a month before now. There had been enormous pressure before. I finished the degree cause I had oral exams and I had an oral presentation for my thesis and all that goes with that. So things should have been better. And. They weren't. I mean, when I, I just didn't know what to make of what this was. I came home. I was in a support group of women that we had been meeting every, every other week for several years. One of them was a counselor. I described what had happened. And she said, you know, there's this program. I think that fixes that. And I thought, well, she don't know what she's talking about and it didn't happen anymore for a while. So I didn't, I didn't do anything.

Erica Roth 9:31

Right. Yeah. I think those nighttime panic attacks too, are kind of like a ball submerged, underwater, you know, like a basketball, you put underwater in a pool, it's going to fling back up out of nowhere. And it's just like, I think that's how those nighttime panic attacks are because you, you ha you put so much pressure of yourself and it's. I'll get submerged and then up it goes and you're like what happened? That was kind of a violent to pushback.

Guest: Barbara 10:02

If it really was a violent first one now two or three later, you know, I thought, okay. Um, okay. You know, I kinda knew that I had had this before, so it wasn't as much of a surprise and I never got, so I couldn't go places. I just was miserable. A lot of places that I went.

Erica Roth 10:23

Yeah. So that's what dr. BARR calls the white knuckling people. There's some people who have a whole list of things they've stopped doing. And then there's some people who just can't, who are just keep going through life, but they never quite feel comfortable in all these situations. It sounds like that's where you were at.

Guest: Barbara 10:39

That's where I was at. I was particularly uncomfortable in a car when, uh, not so much when I was driving. If I was with my husband or somebody else driving, I was worried about that. I was very afraid of flying my husband went on one or two business trips a year that I would go with him. And I was very anxious as I packed my clothes to get ready, to go on a trip, very nervous on the plane. And when I started listening to the tapes, when we went on a trip, I would listen to them. In the car all the way to the airport and I list the relaxation tape. Yes. And I did that in, when I started flying for my own work. I still did that and I did it so much that for the rest of my flying career, when I would get on a plane, I would sit down, buckle up, put my head back. And almost go to sleep well, most of the time go to sleep. Just kind of fall out until the drink cart game.

Erica Roth 11:47

Hmm.

Guest: Barbara 11:48

I had listened to that relaxation tape so much to get me onto the plane.

Erica Roth 11:53

I'm sure the rest of the flight actually wasn't even unpleasant because you had gotten into such a relaxed state

Guest: Barbara 12:00

right, right.

Erica Roth 12:02

that's awesome. So in the book here, you have a different name. We've mentioned that Betty Lewis, what was your experience like being a part of the book? Were you approached or two? I mean, how, how did it go about that? They, that you had your beginning, your middle and your end documented.

Guest: Barbara 12:19

well, they used to do that. I would get a audio tape every week. And. We had the relaxation tape that we were supposed to listen to and my children were eight and 10 thought their mother had gone crazy, but they didn't care because they knew I was better to live with. Uh, and they didn't really understand what was going on, but they asked us for an a. How we felt at the beginning, a middle of the road, uh, evaluation and an end of the road into the program that, uh, evaluation. And they had said, you know,.We're asking you to do something very tedious, not hard, but a bit boring. And we're really wanting you to do it a lot of times. And. I trusted them. I've never gone without sleep for eight days before, but I was willing to do anything anybody said to not do that anymore.

Erica Roth 13:16

Right. And there's a part of the program where they say, they say somebody, they were working with had some resistance and a face and says, well, what if we told you that if you did all of these things, that by the end of the program, you would be better. And the person says, well, I, I would do them. Of course I would do anything. And she says, well, that's what we're telling you. And that's really, that's really it isn't it that if you do it, how you're asked to, you're going to have amazing results.

Guest: Barbara 13:45

well, the first two weeks of the pandemic. I got out my relaxation tape again and began to listen to it regularly, to calm myself down because this was a brand new event in my life. And I began to say the positive affirmations that I used to roll in my head all the time, because I said them so much. I got them back out to help me settle down. And I've been really thrilled. And pleased to know that within two weeks of this, now I'm not happy about how things are, but I have settled down and I'm, I imposed a little structure on my life.

Erica Roth 14:27

And how many years after doing the change program, did you pull out these tools for the, a completely unexpected pandemic that arrived

Guest: Barbara 14:38

uh, let's see. 84 94 Oh five. So 30 some years.

Erica Roth 14:43

something years later,

Guest: Barbara 14:44

Yeah. Now I've pulled them out many times over the, I mean, I've listened to the tapes all over again in 2012, when my husband was diagnosed with Parkinson's, I just needed a whole new run through. But it settled me down and we're living with it well enough.

Erica Roth 15:04

Wow. how has your life significant, how was your life significantly different by the end of the change program? I know we said you were a pair of sailing and, um, but what happened with sleep? Did you, have you always slept well since, or mostly slept well since okay.

Guest: Barbara 15:21

I've mostly slept well since, uh, at the seven week Mark. I was driving home from Tampa when they said things would be better. And I remember seeing a plane, I was near Disney world and a plane was very low as if it was going to crash. And I remember thinking, okay, prior to change, I would have known that plane going, gonna crash into me

Erica Roth 15:44

Uh, huh.

Guest: Barbara 15:46

at that seven week Mark. I thought, okay. Whatever that is. I can't do anything about it. Drive on home and let it go. And I would have rehearsed that in my head prior to change program and worried about what happened and fraught about all the plane crashes they could have. And I just didn't do it. I just stopped that. Then at the 15 week Mark, I knew. I was in my body was relaxed in ways it never had been. And so we went on this trip to Acapoca, which was a business trip for my husband. And he went straight to the meeting rooms and I went straight upstairs to the hotel room, look out the window at the beach and there they were parasailing. And I thought, well, you know, they've been talking about, we really need to try new experiences and I've been trying various new experiences. What I had tried, everything that bothered me before I'd given it a try. I thought this would really be the ultimate new experience to try. And I thought, don't think about it. Just go down there and see what happens.

Erica Roth 16:52

Yeah.

Guest: Barbara 16:53

But I did call the front desk and say, what does it cost? It costs$10. I went, I put on a bathing suit. I went down there, handed them the$10 in before I took too many more breasts. I was in the air and I remember thinking, okay, um, I'm where I want to be. Um, but I'm a whole lot better than I used to be.

Erica Roth 17:16

Yeah. And you were didn't even like flying. So that's

Guest: Barbara 17:20

That's right.

Erica Roth 17:21

parasailing is a whole different story.

Guest: Barbara 17:24

And I like flying so much now. Uh, it was part of my work that I loved. Cause whenever I was flying, I was going somewhere to teach program. And so anytime I'm in an airport, I'm excited. Cause it means I'm getting ready to either go see a child, one of my grandchildren or I'm going on a trip or I'm going to work, which I am always very excited in the airport, which is very different. But before.

Erica Roth 17:50

That's cool. Yeah. I think it's interesting what you were saying about getting better. It's a lot of times. It's not like you're sitting there thinking, okay, I'm, I'm better. I'm better all day it's it's like something generally happens, um, where you say, ah, right. That's interesting. That didn't seem to bother me as much, or I think I could actually, I think I could go try that right now or, or even a couple of days later. Hey, I, I guess I haven't really been feeling much because I think it's really a mystery to people who yeah. Wonder what is it like to get better? Um, how do you measure that? How does that look? And it's, it's very. Subtle. It's very, Oh, I'm starting to live my life again. Okay. It's not anything gigantic. That's popping out moment by moment.

Guest: Barbara 18:40

That's

Erica Roth 18:40

that's exactly how I feel you described it. And that's exactly what the program says is you're always going to get better and you're going to see it in retrospect generally.

Guest: Barbara 18:49

yeah, you sort of slide into it and you realize one day you just haven't thought about it one way or the other for a long time.

Erica Roth 18:57

Yeah. I love that.

Guest: Barbara 18:58

And then some life will throw your curve ball and you have a thought, Oh, What I do now, now I know what to do. You know, I don't allow my body to rev up. Um, and I've given, I gave up caffeine completely.

Erica Roth 19:16

So you never went back.

Guest: Barbara 19:18

I never went back.

Erica Roth 19:19

Do you find that that your system has continuously stayed in a much commerce state since doing the change program, even though you have revisited it? Do you still find that from that first time of doing it, of doing the program, that you're still a different person from that first time?

Guest: Barbara 19:36

yes. And I've never had to do what I did then again. Because my body can remember quicker, much quicker what to do.

Erica Roth 19:49

Yeah. You trained your

Guest: Barbara 19:50

It'll just say, and, you know, scare yourself because you don't, you know, what's happening. You know what you're doing yourself and use. I learned to stop.

Erica Roth 20:02

That's awesome that you've had. So, I mean, this is such a cool thing to be able to talk to somebody who's had such longterm success. I mean, this is definitely, this is definitely longterm success and for

Guest: Barbara 20:14

This is long time.

Erica Roth 20:15

that, for something that is so important for just everyday living it's, um, it's extremely encouraging to hear. What about, for. For free from fears. Do you, do you have any thoughts on that book we're offering it free right now? Would you say to our listeners that they need this book or?

Guest: Barbara 20:34

I think it's a great book to read. the first four sessions of the program are really educating you about what's happening to you. And. You kind of need that before you begin to believe that you can really turn that around. And I think the book is a good base for that. I felt it was a good summary of what we went through, but not a replacement for it. It won't fix you by itself.

Erica Roth 21:00

right. But it's

Guest: Barbara 21:01

Just reading the book. Cause I had read lots of books and I had also lit listened to a lot of relaxation tapes one time and I would say, Oh, well that rent, that didn't work.

Erica Roth 21:12

Yup. That's so funny. Cause when I met dr. BARR, he said, you know, I was his client and he said, You, I have this program and it's going to get you better. And he said, and I said, well, what does it do? And he said, well, you have to do body relaxation exercises. And I said, Oh, I already have done those. I've done them with my last counselor. They don't work. And he said, well, this is different. Um, you you're going to work a program and this is going to, going to give you great success. And I, Oh, I don't think so. Cause I've already done this and it was so funny cause yeah, they have, I mean, now I talk about relaxation exercises as well, a complete life changing. Yeah. You know, and I don't even call it meditation a lot of the time because I think, people can take that as something where it's. Spiritual or it's, you know, in it, and it can be for different people and that's fine, but I don't like to make it something that it sounds not inclusive because I think it's, it's just strictly relaxing your body.

Guest: Barbara 22:10

it's a freaky button word for a lot of people who got what we've got. And I'm just talking about a form of relaxation and breathing.

Erica Roth 22:21

Yeah. And you know, all of the apps and stuff that are out there, they, they call it meditation. And um, most people call it meditation. I just specifically try not to. And I see you do too, because we know that it's nothing really spiritual that's happening when we're doing this. It's uh, I mean, it's the way. We're made we're I believe we are created to relax and to know, you know, to learn how to do that. And that, to me, that's spiritual, but that's in, you know, that's in the back of my mind, not doesn't need to be in anyone else's this is

Guest: Barbara 22:52

mine

Erica Roth 22:53

how do we, you know, how do we, how do we relax ourselves? And it doesn't need to be that it comes from a Buddhist or Christian or any kind of background, um, which is so great. Cause it's for everyone. But, um, Yeah. So is there anything else I missed about your story? Cause I think your story is super cool. I love that people can read it and free from fears when they grab the book@freefromfears.com. But is there anything I, I, I missed that you'd want to say to us.

Guest: Barbara 23:24

well, I have recommended it to people that I have worked with all these last 34 years. I think it is, uh, because I did a lot of coaching for physicians, uh, who were moving into administrative positions and whenever. It would come up that, you know, they were very anxious about what they were doing. I would recommend the relaxation exercise first and for some of them the whole program. And so the way I found you, because my daughter also does the same work I do and recommends them. And we both had gone to the website and it came up. Nothing. And so she said, will you research this and figure out what's going on? Because this is the first time I've ever gone to the website and it didn't come up. So I started hunting for you, and I'm really glad to have found you and was thrilled to. Hear both of your voices, dr. BARR and you and I listened before I contacted you. I found the webinar, the podcast, and I listened to about five of them and I thought, okay, a good, smooth, soft voice and dr. Bar and a really great radio podcast, clear voice. And Erica, two people, I've got a good thing going. I'm excited. We'll have had it as a resource again.

Erica Roth 24:53

Oh, thank you. Yeah. And we hope that the podcast can be additional learning through the change program or for the change program and support because the change program has a lot to it. And sometimes people have questions and we love to just give you additional learning and tips and all of that. And have somebody like you come on, who said I did this 30 years ago and, um, or over 30 years ago. And, um, Had great success. So, and having somebody like face than on who, um, you know, is in the original program as well. And, and now to be able to talk with her, I, I felt like I was talking to somebody really famous when I docked her. And I think you probably felt a pretty big blast from the past when you heard her

Guest: Barbara 25:38

I really did when I heard. And then I saw her, you know, on the video and I thought, you know, we both live in Charlotte. I really ought to call her and tell her w what a difference she made in my life. And then when it disappeared, I found you all and I'm thrilled that you're keeping it out there because one of the things I remember that I think facing said that therapy is a good thing and you need it, but it won't fix you. And Oh, and what I found is I did some therapy. In Florida when I wasn't sleeping, I did both at the same time cause I was grabbing at straws and I felt like the change program enabled me to carry out some of the things I've learned in therapy. Whereas without it, I don't know that I would have done anything except talk about it.

Erica Roth 26:31

Yeah. You kind of get that clear thinking once you've gone through the program of putting it all together as one, because there's a lot of well-meaning therapists out there and there's a lot of therapists with really good information, but to put it all together into one piece, I think is, is where the change program comes in. Your mind just kind of gets clearer anyway, once you've learned to relax your body. So I think that's when all the learning really can happen and growth, then. Um, it's just such a, it's such a hard to explain experience of going through the program. You know, I've been through it myself with when I had debilitating anxiety, dr. BARR has been through it. You've been through it. So, um, yeah. I just hope that we have excited that was listening because they should be excited because it

Guest: Barbara 27:16

Yes, they should be excited.

Erica Roth 27:17

Yeah. And I love that. Do you agree with me on that?

Guest: Barbara 27:21

Yes, it's very, very exciting. And they used to tell me regularly. I know this is boring. We don't care do it anyway. It'll fix you. And that's the truth.

Erica Roth 27:30

Yeah, it's a

Guest: Barbara 27:31

It will.

Erica Roth 27:32

short time of your life to, uh, to make some sacrifices, to, you know, be able to say 34 years later on a podcast, look at my life is still significantly different from, you know, from making those sacrifices.

Guest: Barbara 27:48

Yes.

Erica Roth 27:49

I said anyway. All right, Barbara. Well, thank you so much for being on with us and sharing everything that happened and, and all the success you had with change. And, um, remember people listening, you can hear, you can see Barbara story and free, free from fears, book.com. That's where you'll get the book free from fears. And, uh, and you'll see other success stories as well. And you'll learn about the change program in general, uh, in that book. But Barbara, thank you for being here and we hope to have you on again sometime.

Guest: Barbara 28:21

Well, It's a pleasure to talk to you and I'd be happy to be on anytime. Thank you. Bye bye.

Erica Roth 28:27

Ah, did that not convince you that the change program is amazing? Barbara reached out to us just to remind you. We didn't reach out to her. She found us because she had wondered what happened to the change program and found out that we had taken it over. And as you heard, she's just so excited that it's been taken over and that it's not lost because even though it was created a little while ago, Um, all the information is still exactly what you need to recover from anxiety. And it's also the information that you're not finding to recover from anxiety. I know I wasn't, and I know this was my answer and it was dr. Barr's answer to getting better from anxiety. So to be a part of that change, uh, beta group that I mentioned at the beginning, that's changed with two A's dot com slash beta. Be sure to sign up for it. You will not regret it. And if you're interested in the book free from fears, which I told you, Barbara story is in, you can get that book at free from fears, book.com. Okay. I will talk to you next week. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope that something and today's conversation provided you with a feeling of hope, determination, or purpose. I know what you're going through and that's why I want to give you some of the tools that helped to me in my anxiety journey to get your free copy of dr Barr's relaxation audio that helped changed my life forever. Just go to life free of anxiety.com/relax. Thanks again for listening and remember. You are not broken, you are not alone, and you are on your way to living a life free of anxiety. See you next week.